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 Dual Wield resolution(?)

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Popmouth
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PostSubject: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 16:07

So, I know you're quite fed up with the DW. debate – still I must share an idea. It might have been up in some version, I don't know. I haven't heard of it though so make the following changes to P.19 in the Mordheim rulebook:

Fighting with two weapons

Some maniac warriors carry two weapons, one in
each hand, so they can rain a flurry of blows on their
enemies. A warrior armed with two one-handed
weapons may make 1 extra Attack with the additional
weapon. This however requires some certain training.
Any Warrior (who can handle weapons) may be trained in
the skill of Dual Wielding for an additional cost of 10g.
This is either paid when recruiting the warrior
(be he henchmen or hero) or later on in the game, when needed.
Add the note "Dual Wield" in the skills and injuries table.
Note that the extra attack is added to the total of the
warrior’s attacks after other modifiers, such as frenzy,
have been applied. If he is armed with two different
weapons (sword and dagger, for example), he will
make a single attack with whichever weapon he
chooses, and all others with the remaining weapon.
Roll to hit and wound for each weapon separately.


The real problem with DW is that it's so cheap. So why not give it a price? I thought 10g would be fair, maybe 15g is better?
– Popmouth
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 16:31

Even with this, it's still cheaper to dual-wield than to purchase any kind of useful armor, which I think is the main problem. Why carry a shield when armor does so little and an extra weapon is more effective?
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Tue 22 Sep 2009 - 19:47

Along with a +1 HtH AS from 1h weap+shield combo, this would be workable, and I would accept it as an official change.

However, I so like the full armor/DW changes our group is using now, I wouldn't change to "10gc for DW training" unless it becomes official.
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 0:24

Well, it's cheaper in gold yes, and its still good; the main change is that you probably will think twice of arming your 5 strong verminkin henchmen group with a club and knife for the 50 extra gold crowns. Earlier it was free to do this, now it has a price.
Dual wield sure gives an upperhand against your opponent, though it will not give you that extra defend. Ofcourse, with this easy change, it's hardly a problem to Houserule some armour as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 0:45

The real question that popped in my head was: Why open yet another thread for it? desperate

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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 11:16

I couldn't bother finding the other one when writing – I was like five minutes from bed so... Really, why bother asking such a wordly question? I would be much gladder for an answer on the matter. ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 15:34

Maybe if you made one "stickied" compilation thread of all of the dualwield ideas to date, less of these would slip through. It could include all the various homebrew rules for balancing it against shields and such. Plus noone would have to search.
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Wed 23 Sep 2009 - 19:38

I second that!
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 1:32

Good Idea... I hardly have the authority though? If so, How do I do it? I'm kind if keen to let go of this meta-discussion and continue the with focus.
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 2:25

Someone of you guys should write an objective thread, presenting the most popular options and suggestions, at best with links to the other threads. No "I think this is best" kind of thread. Just leave the stickiness to the Mods & Admin.

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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 3:06

*walks in covered with stickiness all over him*

Damn you cianty, you got me with the bucket of stickiness on top of the door again, and now we're running low :p

Damn mods and Admins and their stickiness

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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 5:48

cianty wrote:
Someone of you guys should write an objective thread, presenting the most popular options and suggestions, at best with links to the other threads. No "I think this is best" kind of thread. Just leave the stickiness to the Mods & Admin.
Hmmm, then that still leaves "thread sprawl" for discussion. Some forums are against that (Druchii.net), and other are for it (most I've been on) - still, it would be useful to have a stickied thread presenting the options objectively, so we'll get it. However, I don't agree that it should only include only the "most popular" ones.

Yes, we leave the spreading of stickiness to you, and at best request some stickiness from time to time be spread our way.

Also the request to sticky a compilation of the DW threads came as a result of this comment:
cianty wrote:
The real question that popped in my head was: Why open yet another thread for it?
With that comment, it appeared that you favored keeping the discussion (which would, by definition, include "I think this is best" commentary), not just the list of options, in one thread. If we cannot discuss DW in a stickied thread, then the answer to the question that popped into your head is: because we were denied having a stickied thread in which to centrally discuss DW options. Of course, we could just find and resurrect old threads, but having a DW discussion thread stickied would help people like Popmouth who want to make a quick post five minutes before bed easily find the already-existing discussion thread and post to it.
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 6:36

What I was aiming at is that we have one sticky thread which summarizes the suggested fixes (I won't even dare to request the "most popular ones" because opinions vary here heavily) and then, sure, continue discussing them in that very thread. Of course, discussion can and probably should be kept to one thread because otherwise people would have to jump from thread to thread to get the full picture. I think many options are mixes of various options anyways so it doesn't make sense to try and separate the different approaches. The +1 AS for shield rule e.g. will most likely be part of all "solutions".

I don't think anyone will ever read the original DW thread anyways so we can let that one die away now. Recapping the results you all came up with is a good thing and starting with clear objective post would certainly warrant stickiness. After that initial introductiory post, everyone should of course voice their own opinion and explain why they prefer certain fixes to others. It's just that for the sake of the reader it would be best to have a proper initial post.

What do you think?

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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 15:59

Well that was kind of my point – I was so tired of the last DW-thread, I felt it would be nice with a fresh start (besides the earlier mentioned reasons). Anyway, can we kill this Meta-discussion NOW. I really didn't ask for it, and I'd rather discuss the issue of giving DW an actual cost, as in my topic.
Now, I'm obviously not saying this is the best sollution, I just wanted some nice critique on the idea. I think it works quite well (the price could be adjusted), since Dual Wield would now cost 10 + 3gc at least, now as I mentioned earlier larger henchmen groups with dual wield would be a lot fewer, and I believe players would think it worth testing spears, halberds, two handed weapons and such, since the advantage is just slight. Now -1S I like, I think it is a pretty good resolution, still the negative aspects don't really reflect the cheapness of it. I mean -1S + 1A for 3gc is quite neat. Even if your knife only scores on a 6?
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PostSubject: Re: Dual Wield resolution(?)   Thu 24 Sep 2009 - 18:45

@cianty - I think that's it! Thread made: http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/rules-and-gameplay-f1/the-big-boring-dual-wield-thread-t2735.htm#40034. If you would kindly spread some stickiness it's way, I would be grateful.
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