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 Stunned, knocked down bonus question?

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Popmouth
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PostSubject: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 3:14

So, say that two skavens fight against one human warrior. The skaven strikes first and manages to stun the human. Now it's time for the second skaven to attack, does i automaticly send the human OOA or does he have to wound as normal, since its the same turn?
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 3:16

OOA

Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 7:44

I thought so. Now I'm sure how to play ^_^
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 9:36

If the human is Stunned, than any warrior who has Charged can take him OOA instantly (not the one that has already attacked ofcourse)???

If the human is KD, than its auto to hit. Only roll for to wound and armour saves. Do you still have to roll injury rolls at this point???
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 9:56

Gobbo Freak wrote:
If the human is Stunned, than any warrior who has Charged can take him OOA instantly (not the one that has already attacked ofcourse)???

Sure.

Gobbo Freak wrote:
If the human is KD, than its auto to hit. Only roll for to wound and armour saves. Do you still have to roll injury rolls at this point???

Nope. Successful to wound roll -> OOA

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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 10:00

Okay, thanks.

Just checking, because we used to change it all the time, since we always forgot what to use at what point.

Do i make sence?
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 10:03

Gobbo Freak wrote:
Do i make sence?

Erm... no! Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 10:27

wouldn't the second skaven still have to roll to hit, wound, and roll injuries if both skaven were striking simultaneously (i.e. they had the same initiative, both charged, both had great weapons, etc.)?
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 11:07

Myntokk wrote:
wouldn't the second skaven still have to roll to hit, wound, and roll injuries if both skaven were striking simultaneously (i.e. they had the same initiative, both charged, both had great weapons, etc.)?

nope. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 11:52

cianty wrote:
Myntokk wrote:
wouldn't the second skaven still have to roll to hit, wound, and roll injuries if both skaven were striking simultaneously (i.e. they had the same initiative, both charged, both had great weapons, etc.)?

nope.
Really? So if, technically, my two models are making their attacks at the same time, I get to pick what order they attack in, or does it go to a roll-off (like it would between opponents)?
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 13:54

Myntokk wrote:
Really? So if, technically, my two models are making their attacks at the same time, I get to pick what order they attack in, or does it go to a roll-off (like it would between opponents)?

Actually this is an important aspect that is not clarified sufficiently in the rules although it should. I guess with the rewrite of the rules it now is though...

Imagine Hero H and Henchman M charging enemy E. Both H and M have first strike in the first round, so they strike before the enemy. Now, if both have the same Initiative, then you must roll off to see who strikes first. Usually players don't pay much attention to this and just let them make their attacks in the order they declared the charges or at will. However, there is no "simultaneous striking" in Mordheim and the rules clearly state how to proceed this and there is no reason not to strictly determine the order of attack among allies same as between enemies. In fact, it is highly relevant.

If H manages to wound and knock or stun the enemy, then the henchmen M can easily take the victim ooa. However, if M strikes first, then H can auto-kill the victim and gain an experience point for that. The order of attacks is very important because of the possibility of earning experience. It is also relevant to see which Hero gains an XP, if more than one Hero is involved in the combat.

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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 14:52

We usually play that the one closest to E rolls first, because [Orcish] 'E iz first to da scrappin' [/Orcish]
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Tue 15 Sep 2009 - 15:40

You mean you measure, compare and remember the distance that all chargers moved to the victim and then resolve attacks in descending order, starting with the model that moved the least?

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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 3:31

Sounds difficult to keep track of. Cianty, your point on rolling for who strikes first between your own fighters is very good. Though, if two Henchmen fought in a combat this would be quite unnessecary. So a rule of thumbs would be, as soon as one or more Heroes are ivolved in combat, role to see who strikes first within your own models (if initiative is same).
Or one could play that you may chose who strikes first in these cases. Provides some tactical fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 8:11

Popmouth wrote:
Cianty, your point on rolling for who strikes first between your own fighters is very good.

... And that's this way we play, 'cause it helps against those who want to choose to pick easy XP (I mean, your Rat Ogre and your Night Runner charge a marskman, it's easy to see that if the rat ogre didn't kill the man, the Night Runner will achieve him and gain +1 Xp ). So we proceed as follow :
- Attack First
- If both of them have the rule, use the Initiative
- If they have the same Initiative, roll a dice

Logical and easy to understand
I like the idea "the one who's closer", but it can't be applicable on all the cases, so I prefer an easier rule which work all the time
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 8:19

It's just the normal rules for detemining order of attackers so you can't go wrong with it. Smile

For henchmen I guess it doesn't matter. However, if they are differently armed, then the player might wish to strike first with the model who has two attacks, see what happens, and then use the one with the low WS but the double-handed weapon to finish the enemy off. You see, even among henchmen the order of attacks can have an impact on the outcome (or so it could be argued) so I'm afraid you'd have to always roll off and never decide. Personally I prefer to add as much option/choice/tactics to the game as possible and keep the number of dice rolls to a minimum. But it could be argued that you get an unfair advantage by choosing freely which henchmen attack first...

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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 8:46

cianty wrote:
You mean you measure, compare and remember the distance that all chargers moved to the victim and then resolve attacks in descending order, starting with the model that moved the least?


No, we don't measure compare and remember.

It's only used when more units charge the same model and then in most cases it's not hard to see which of them was closest to the enemy. When they're about equal distance then we usually determine for ourselves which of them goes first.
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 8:52

Alright, Gobbo. Still, it's an interesting concept to detemine strike order by the distance moved... I like that... *makes note* Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 8:57

Imagine IRL. You see an enemy. You're not going to wait on your mates to come to hit him first, if you are closest by...

You start the fight and your mates will come help you a bit later (once they arrive)


Okay, I have to admit, it sounds a bit odd rulewise
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 10:50

Gotcha, I suppose it makes sense I guess it had just never come up in our group, or if it has then I'm not sure how we handled it.

Rolling off doesn't bother me in the slightest, but allowing players to pick the order seems a bit iffy since there is often a tactical advantage in having one warrior in particular attack after the guy's already down (xp, easier kill, etc.). While it is supposed to be a strategy game, some realism should be involved too, and I doubt that those sorts of things would cross your warriors' minds in the heat of battle ("OK Johnny, you whack him first so I can get an easy kill once he's down and learn some new talents!").
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Thu 17 Sep 2009 - 6:26

Still, I hardly see that two friendly warriors (I'm not taking Orcs in consideration right now Wink) would fight to see who would strike first. I mean, either way is fair really, since both can use the tactical benefits when not rolling, and both loses it when rolling. As long as you're consequent it shouldn't matter that much really...
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Thu 17 Sep 2009 - 11:19

When it comes to two chargers w/ same initiative (and no bonuses, like spears and junk), our group always handled that the model that was declared as a charger first attackers before the charger that was declared second. It makes it a strategy in itself, really: do I send the henchmen in first, in hope that he'll KD or Stun the model, letting my hero take him out second, or do I send my hero in first and hope he gets the job down first try?

In further rounds, we handle same initiative by a roll off.
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PostSubject: Re: Stunned, knocked down bonus question?   Today at 10:56

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