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someone2040
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PostSubject: Possessed Options   Sun 13 Sep 2009 - 1:01

Hi there,
been lurking for a little while now, but since there's a group getting together for Mordheim, it's time I made a post!
Now, I've only had brief experiences with Mordheim in the past. Back when I was younger, bought the Witch Hunter warband, had a Warrior priest and that was about it. Didn't really know what was going on.

Now, many years later, going into a proper campaign thing. I'm starting the Cult of the Possessed, as I love converting and modelling, and there are obviously plenty of options here. Now I'm wondering what are some good weapon options for my guys? Not just in the short term, but in the long run as well. The reason I ask is because I'm currently in the process of converting my warband, so want to choose and make options for the weapons now and in the future.
There's probably a few house rules we'll be using to balance things out. Nothing confirmed at this stage, but possibly
Extra armour in close combat for having a shield and hand weapon.
-1 to hit on both hands/off hand when dual wielding.
Something to reduce the amount of critical hits.

So with that in mind, here are a few of my thoughts
Magister : Well, the model will definately have a dagger on it. Not that I have to represent that. Probably a Sword to protect him as well?
Mutants : Not really sure here. Clubs are always useful. At the moment I'm thinking of taking one with a Scorpion Tail and the other with Extra Arms.

Brethren : Well, I guess there's more clubs. Are bows/short bows worth taking on these guys? How about spears (Or is that probably only worth it if they get an initiative upgrade due to the Annual revision?).
Darksouls : Are flails the norm? Good to have one or two floating around with a flail, and the rest dual wielding?
Beastmen : How about Beastmen? I guess the point of having 2 weapons is two shots at the enemy rather than one that could miss straight off the bat. They have the extra wound, so is it plausible to take a flail/double handed weapon on one as they can last a bit longer.

I guess it's hard to determine, as none of the rules are definate. Shield bonus could see more armour saves, and hence Axes being a bit more useful than just clubs and more clubs. Especially if there's a negative to dual wielding as well.

At the moment, I'm thinking something along the lines of this for my starting Warband.

Heroes 346 gold
Magister, Free Dagger, Sword 80 gold
Possessed, Spines 125 gold
Mutant, Scorpion Tail, Free Dagger, Club 68 gold
Mutant, Extra Arms, Free Dagger, Club, Shield 73 gold

Henchmen 154 gold
Beastman, Free Dagger, Club 48 gold
Darksoul, Free Dagger, Flail 50 gold OR Beastman, Free Dagger, Axe 50 gold
Brethren x2, Free Daggers, 2x Club 56 gold
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hero
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Sun 13 Sep 2009 - 12:51

Huh, I never noticed that Beastmen in the Possessed warband keep the two wounds like the old style Beasts of Chaos. Pretty crazy, now the Beastmen in the Beastmen warband are inferior!

I've never played Possessed before but with the general rule of thumb being that quantity is quality I'd just get a bunch of brethren with clubs to start with and then get Beastmen when I could. I'd be tempted to give the Beastmen armor to make them really hard to kill, but, you know, gotta have the money.

I don't know about Darksouls man, they just look like bad flagellants.
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ts061282
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Sun 13 Sep 2009 - 13:16

This has been discussed here before. The generally agreed strategy for Possessed campaigning is get good mutations on 3-4 heroes. Max beastmen for the "That Lad's Got Talent" advancement. Your first few battles with this small, initially gimped force should be to take two casualties and rout. Once you can afford your full heroes and have gotten a beastmen advance, you should then try to fill up your force with brethren. This is slow going at unsatisfying to begin with, but you will catch up and surpass your opponents after a half-dozen games.
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someone2040
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Sun 13 Sep 2009 - 22:24

hero wrote:
Huh, I never noticed that Beastmen in the Possessed warband keep the two wounds like the old style Beasts of Chaos. Pretty crazy, now the Beastmen in the Beastmen warband are inferior!

I've never played Possessed before but with the general rule of thumb being that quantity is quality I'd just get a bunch of brethren with clubs to start with and then get Beastmen when I could. I'd be tempted to give the Beastmen armor to make them really hard to kill, but, you know, gotta have the money.

I don't know about Darksouls man, they just look like bad flagellants.
Yep, certainly makes Beastmen fairly awesome. Weaponskill 4, Toughness 4 with 2 wounds, thank you. That's why I think it'd be good to chuck 2 or 3 in there (Although, I would have to drop my Brethren to get 3) just so I can hopefully get a Lads got Talent on an already decent henchman.
Hmm... I guess the thing Darksouls have going for them is the weapon variety and armour. So they lose out in weaponskill, (Ballistic skill as well, but they can't use ranged weapons anyway), toughness, and anything that uses leadership but isn't a leadership test. But I guess maybe they make up for it by being able to dual wield and take armour (including helmets). Not saying they great, I'd probably still prefer Flagellants, but you use what you can. Darksouls add a bit of strength into the warband and don't need to stick close to the Leader either.

ts061282 wrote:
This has been discussed here before. The generally agreed strategy for Possessed campaigning is get good mutations on 3-4 heroes. Max beastmen for the "That Lad's Got Talent" advancement. Your first few battles with this small, initially gimped force should be to take two casualties and rout. Once you can afford your full heroes and have gotten a beastmen advance, you should then try to fill up your force with brethren. This is slow going at unsatisfying to begin with, but you will catch up and surpass your opponents after a half-dozen games.
Hmm.... I'm not convinced about this though. If I only have Beastmen, who are my fall guys?
Basically, if Beastmen are my fall guys (Cause they're tough as nails), then they aren't going to skill up and have a good chance of dying.
If Mutants or Possessed are my fall guys... well that affects my cash flow.
I feel if I throw some Brethren into the fray, keep my heroes somewhat cheap (one mutation each), I should have a decent warband to start off with.

The main point of the topic wasn't really for criticising the list (Although, that's fine as well), just what people think are good weapon options for the warband in the short term and long run so I know what sort of options I need to model.
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Myntokk
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Mon 14 Sep 2009 - 0:35

Personally I like swords in the long run for those that are able to learn expert swordsman, otherwise for henchmen I tend to avoid fancy or expensive equipment unless I really have a lot of money, and just go for clubs or spears, depending on if I'm armoring them at all.

I would skip short bows on the brethren, since by the time they're in range you'll gat maybe one shot off before it's time for melee, where they'll probably be more effective anyways.
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Mon 14 Sep 2009 - 9:31

Why is it that you can't buy new mutations during your campaign but needs to buy all the mutations when buying the character. In my opinion that is a strange rule since in my mind the possessed in mordheim should mutate more the better they are.

We are thinking of some sort of system where you should be able to get new mutations later into the game, maybe like skills. Or that you just buy them as in the beginning of the game... I mean, it is still expensive, they still cost double for the second mutation and you might not want to use all your money on mutations but I think that you should have the option... What do you say about this?
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Citizen Sade
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Mon 14 Sep 2009 - 10:23

You can always forego an experience advance and send your mutants and magister off to see the Shadowlord. The potential risks and rewards involved in 'The rewards of the Shadowlord' optional rules strike me as being suitably chaotic.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Mon 14 Sep 2009 - 10:30

This is surely meant to be a balancing thing.

I don't know though... I don't think Possessed would be overpowered if the had an additional skill - Mutation, that allows them to buy additional Mutations during a campaign (maybe at 2x cost).

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Myntokk
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Mon 14 Sep 2009 - 10:40

Trulsa wrote:
Why is it that you can't buy new mutations during your campaign but needs to buy all the mutations when buying the character. In my opinion that is a strange rule since in my mind the possessed in mordheim should mutate more the better they are.

We are thinking of some sort of system where you should be able to get new mutations later into the game, maybe like skills. Or that you just buy them as in the beginning of the game... I mean, it is still expensive, they still cost double for the second mutation and you might not want to use all your money on mutations but I think that you should have the option... What do you say about this?
It did always seem a little unfair that Beastmen had a skill allowing them to buy a mutation while possessed did not.

As Citizen Sade pointed out though, you can always play with the optional "Rewards of the Shadowlord" advance table. If you don't already, I would definitely recommend it, and if you do I would house-rule that any Possessed heroes may go, not only the Magister or mutants. Although I'm not sure what you would do for a Possessed that went to the Shadowlord and rolled up a 12, since he's already possessed...hm...maybe just re-roll it.
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 19:32

Trulsa, Myntokk, check Werekin's excellent work: http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/rules-and-gameplay-f1/new-rules-for-mutations-gifts-alchemy-surgery-t2595.htm (I'm not sure why cianty didn't mention this already.)
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hero
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 20:08

Claw! Get a Claaaaw.
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werekin
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Thu 17 Sep 2009 - 11:46

Thanks for the plug Wyldhunt.

Regards,

Werekin.

B-)
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Myntokk
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PostSubject: Re: Possessed Options   Thu 17 Sep 2009 - 17:55

Wow, that's a really cool addition to the mutation system! Kudos Werekin, nice work.
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