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 Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium

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wyldhunt
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PostSubject: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Sun 30 Aug 2009 - 18:35

I hesitate a little to post this, but my desire to share has trumped other concerns. The primary reason I've been so involved in rules discussion until now, and next to nil in modeling, is that I've been compiling and settling rules for our local group. I'm ready to call attention to the results now.

I know that I'm dealing with copyrighted material in compiling this information, but am acting in the spirit of those who have done similarly in the past - Mordheimer (in the breadth of inclusions) and Asp (in the focus of altering the rules to what our gaming group desires to get out of the game). If I have too much in what I've compiled, I'll restrict access to the entire writeup to only those in my group, and call out just the changes on the website.

For those who are interested in seeing some alternate rules, edited for a more systematic (and what we consider fair and fun) ruleset, along with what we believe will prove to be a very fun overarching campaign system (based a lot on the Mordheimer's and Jim Weaver's work), please check out http://sites.google.com/site/wyldhaunt/games-workshop/mordheim.

This work is still in an early draft stage, but I'm ready for feedback on what's been done. What am I looking for out of feedback? Extra eyes to help correct any omissions/mistakes I've made, and comments to help me verify clarity in wording, and to help determine that our group means and stands behind the changes we made.

What will you get out of reading the changes we've made? Hopefully thoughts and inspirations on some alternate viewpoints for the changes, and especially some ideas regarding an overarching campaign system.

Unless there are items which are borked, or where our group can be convinced that substantive changes need to be made, this ruleset is pretty much it for our group going forward - except for a very important edit: including credit where due in specific items (that will be coming soon) and in general (after all, the vast majority of my work has been in compilation, not in new ideas). Now that I've got the initial setup "completed," I can finally focus more on the modeling aspect, which I'm excited to start!
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Sun 30 Aug 2009 - 22:13

that is certainly a LOT of work you have accomplished. I say get gaming and enjoy the fruits of your efforts!
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Mon 31 Aug 2009 - 3:53

Looking good!
I don't have time for a proper readthrough right now, but it looks like there's enough there for me to loot that I might as well give some in-depth feedback up ahead.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Mon 31 Aug 2009 - 4:21

This is very impressive work. I haven't read all of it yet but (after ogling the map for a bit - I love a good map!) I went straight for the campaign rules.

Fate Points: I love the rewards for providing scenery and using painted warbands! I shall be looting that idea!
I really like the uses for Fate Points too.

But...
Why the restrictions on warbands? Is it really so bad to have an uneven spread of warbands in a campaign? They will all become quite individual after two or three games anyway...
(I am only pointing these out as I know I would have a rebellion on my hands if I tried this with my group...)
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Mon 31 Aug 2009 - 8:27

First off, very nice. I only read the campaign rules (and peeked at the Equipment rules, which didn't look all that different to me.) I agree, the fate points look like a neat system. Another possible source of fate points is sportsmanship (lending a player figures/dice/ruler when he forgot his, impartial judging of his own warband, being a gracious winner/loser, etc.) Another: providing/writing new rules and scenarios, or for playing ref for another game. I mean, a new scenario always perks people up, and it takes a good person to stop his game to make a ruling on someone elses. Maybe there's a 'player of the day' award, or something, based on a player who's playing for fun rather than winning.

(Ex. I'm a fluff player, but our group is a grab bag of serious gamers and fluff players like me... so, when a serious gamer in our group decided to go on a limb and, just for the fun of it, try to jump a 6" gap with his Leaping High Elf hero, we loved it. He failed, of course, the elf bounced comically off of the side, suffered damage, and took turns to climb up. But it didn't matter, because we were all enjoying the danger and free spirit of fun that resulted.)

Boot Hook: This is just a house rule, but the Boot Hook as written is a little off to me. I recommend either dropping the -1 S (so it's a two-handed spear for 8gc), or lowering the price to 3gc (so it's a cheap, two-handed spear at -1 S).

Have fun!
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Tue 1 Sep 2009 - 18:03

Thank you all for the replies!

WarbossKurgan wrote:
Why the restrictions on warbands? Is it really so bad to have an uneven spread of warbands in a campaign? They will all become quite individual after two or three games anyway...
I've played too many campaigns with no Possessed, no Sisters, and a paucity of the other "essential" warbands. It wouldn't even feel like Mordheim to us if the essential warbands in total were completely outnumbered by the others. So I figured it best to have all of the players take a least one from essential list, and to make sure all of the essential warbands are represented. I'd do the same for other settings using the Mordheim rules as well. Yes, each warband will become quite individual after a few games, which actually should help everyone be comfortable with taking an essential warband along with their own choice warband. Every player can still play one warband of their choice from the full list, within the other restriction on "singular" warbands. We're not too comfortable with multiple Shadow Warriors running amuk in our Mordheim campaigns - in fact I had to do a lot of slicing to get us comfortable with using them at all! Given all that, it's just as easy to adjust this to your group's preferences - maybe just stipulate that at least one representative of each essential warband be present.

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Another possible source of fate points is sportsmanship (lending a player figures/dice/ruler when he forgot his, impartial judging of his own warband, being a gracious winner/loser, etc.) Another: providing/writing new rules and scenarios, or for playing ref for another game. I mean, a new scenario always perks people up, and it takes a good person to stop his game to make a ruling on someone elses. Maybe there's a 'player of the day' award, or something, based on a player who's playing for fun rather than winning.
I got the ideas for Fate Points from other people who are using them. The effects from using them came pretty much straight from Jim Weaver's "The Warpstones Belong To Us!" campaign. In the categories for getting Fate Points, I initially figured it best to remove the "contest for best" style awards, such as "best sportsmanship" - they definitely work for refereed situations, but since we've actively worked to remove the requirement for referees from all instances of these rules, I hesistate to add items which might require refereeing. Voting could still be used - we'll have to ruminate and come up with a simple, clear way to do so, especially since voting can be swayed so much and end up with hard feelings (I've seen it happen in many different game systems). I hope all of us play for fun first, and winning second! I did think about adding categories for new scenarios and such, but since I'm the sole person in our group that goes and gets those, it seemed self-serving to do so... Even so, these categories are all good to add, so we'll figure out some way to get them in.

Boat Hook: good catch - I knew something was off there, but filed a fix for "later thought." I would really like this to be consistent with Sartosa, especially since I plan to play Sartosa sometime! What do you think of replacing the -1S with either a -1 to hit or -1WS? (This is both for fluff of the boat hook being not quite a purpose-built weapon and for the cost being just below that of a spear.)
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Wed 2 Sep 2009 - 3:41

Warband choice: I understand now: I haven't had the problem of too many uber-warbands so didn't see the need to fix it! Laughing
I don't play Mordheim in the Mordheim setting either, so my "essentials" would be different to yours. Wink

Boat hook: I'd go with making it cheaper ans still -1S. Since a boat hook doesn't normally have a "pointy bit" like a spear, and often have a rounded tip!

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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Wed 2 Sep 2009 - 8:41

In Sartosa, I have the former, 8gc Normal strength variety. I believe the reason it was -1 S was because I think it used to be able to attack at more than ase combat, like the old-school whip.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Thu 3 Sep 2009 - 9:56

In the rules for the Brazier Staff you don't explain the effects of a model being on fire. Maybe it is covered somewhere else in your rules though, I haven't read everything. Also this is the first time I noticed that a Brazier Staff gives +1 strength, I might actually use one now!

Ah snap you do cover it elsewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Sun 13 Sep 2009 - 19:02

Wyldhunt,

You have gone where I was too lazy to go and I thank you !
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Sun 13 Sep 2009 - 19:19

Wyldhunt, have you heard of "The_Mordheimer's_Campaign_Aid_v1.20.pdf"

It has some nice scenarios attached to the map as well as some good unique loot for each sector.

This is the one i have used although I completely disregarded the campaign score mentality and went for the same direction you are going (The "Real" feeling of Mordheim)

The reason I mentioned the map is that...

for a REALLY interesting game, we didn't allow war bands to hire new members unless they were inside an encampment or within 1 tile of an encampment (aka outside the walls)

This resulted in some really violent orcs refusing to leave Mordheim and ending up as a 4 piece all hero war band. (which was a lot of fun)
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 18:52

Why is the Spiked Gauntlet cost 15, rare 7? You've made it the exact same as a sword.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 19:19

Dragannia wrote:
Why is the Spiked Gauntlet cost 15, rare 7? You've made it the exact same as a sword.
This is the cost calculated by extrapolating it from the cost of the Undead Style in the Pit Fighter warband given in Town Cryer 21. I completely understand it's a rare, more-expensive sword. However, remember that cost in Mordheim is not just based on effectiveness - it's also based on "availability" and fluff. This is why armor remains so expensive as well. Also I didn't make it the "exact same as a sword" - that's how it was originally presented in the Mordheim rulebook.

@TheFool - thanks! Yes, The Morheimer's Campaign Aid is one of many Mordheim resources I consulted in making this compendium. Jim Weaver also has rules for not being able to hire henchmen when deep in the city, and I've kept these - check the Campaign Rules pdf, near the end, under "Hire new recruits and buy common items." I didn't keep the location-specific loot tables - redoing those from the base was beyond what our group felt was needed right now, though we might do this later on. One vast improvement (to me) that Jim made over Mordheimer's campaign rules was to ditch the area control game (if I remember correctly, that was introduced with Lustria), and return Mordheim to a "get in, get out" game.

We've locally found many other glaring typos and some equally-glaring omissions (e.g., Trained Bear). I'm also digesting the excellent Border Town Burning setting, and will fold in what our group feels is appropriate for us in Mordheim next. I've also got to put the credits in a better state than they are currently, and I'm thinking of a full reference addendum (research-paper style, since that's what I'm mostly doing here).
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 20:10

Quote :
I've also got to put the credits in a better state than they are currently, and I'm thinking of a full reference addendum (research-paper style, since that's what I'm mostly doing here).

I do not envy you that task, sir. Good luck
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Wed 16 Sep 2009 - 21:06

wyldhunt wrote:
Dragannia wrote:
Why is the Spiked Gauntlet cost 15, rare 7? You've made it the exact same as a sword.
This is the cost calculated by extrapolating it from the cost of the Undead Style in the Pit Fighter warband given in Town Cryer 21. I completely understand it's a rare, more-expensive sword. However, remember that cost in Mordheim is not just based on effectiveness - it's also based on "availability" and fluff. This is why armor remains so expensive as well. Also I didn't make it the "exact same as a sword" - that's how it was originally presented in the Mordheim rulebook.

Well in the original rulebook they were a buckler and a hand weapon. That means that they could re-roll parries with a sword, while 2 swords could not. In your version they always can. I understand it IS the original cost and such, but house rules are supposed to be geared towards balance. It makes little sense because it offers no advantage over swords (other weapons have their cost reflected in their special rules), especially for expensive pit fighters who need to buy a helmet for each style (essentially a 10 gold increase for pit fighter models, which is very restricting early game).
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Thu 17 Sep 2009 - 19:32

Dragannia wrote:
Well in the original rulebook they were a buckler and a hand weapon. That means that they could re-roll parries with a sword, while 2 swords could not. In your version they always can.
The version we've gone with has been house-ruled the same way by many before us, and for years. It is true that we went with these house rules that are accepted by many others rather than the stricter original second sword parry rules - we have felt a balance in this, although we accepted the house rule without specifically considering it, since "it's the way we've always played." Perhaps we should only allow a second sword granting a reroll for a failed Parry when the model knows Expert Swordsman.

Dragannia wrote:
...house rules are supposed to be geared towards balance.
This is true only on a personal group level - the majority of house rules I've seen have taken the core game vastly out of balance.

Dragannia wrote:
It makes little sense because it offers no advantage over swords...
There are also many other rules in this game which make little game balance sense, but only "fluff" sense.

Dragannia wrote:
(other weapons have their cost reflected in their special rules)
And many don't - take a look at the Pistols thread for some quick examples.

Dragannia wrote:
...especially for expensive pit fighters...
Here we have it - you have a focus for game balance around the Pit Fighters. I understand that, but our group is geared towards a more general game balance first, with specific game balance points coming from warbands and such we're familiar with.

Thank you for discussing this here, and you do have valid points regarding the Pit Fighters' costs and such.

I don't think a cost adjustment of the Spiked Gauntlet to 10gc specifically for the Pit Fighters (at initial recruitment) is out of line (especially since some other warbands get similar discounts for themed items).

I'll bring the Parry and Spiked Gauntlet items to my group and we'll decide what to do for ourselves. You've convinced me: now I'm in favor of removing the Parry reroll from a second sword (but I would like to allow it if the model knows Expert Swordsman), but the final determination for us will be made by our whole group, not just me.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Mon 6 Dec 2010 - 14:51

Does this compendium still exist?
All my links lead me to 404 or empty pages..
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Mon 6 Dec 2010 - 18:05

That's never a good sign.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Tue 7 Dec 2010 - 0:00

Wyldhunt said that he was leaving and that he was going to delete everything mid-year. That has obviously happened.

I'll have to see whether I downloaded anything (as I'm pretty sure that I did - I like to download everything in case something like this happens after the near loss of the Morderheimer Information Centre). PM me if you are interested and I'll email you what I have.
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PostSubject: Re: Wyldhunt's Mordheim Compendium   Wed 8 Dec 2010 - 16:18

I'm really interested in experimental rules developed by active playing groups!

Wyldhunt, I'm going to read your compendium cover to cover... just as soon as you've posted an exclusive showcasing your newly painted warband in the gallery section. Wink

Regards,

Werekin.

p.s. Spiked Gauntlet @ 15 gold guilders and Rare 7. In your dreams Ostlander!
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