HomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsBlogLog inGolden Tom 2014 Thread!

Share | 
 

 Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
AuthorMessage
wyldhunt
Elder
Elder


Posts : 337
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-06-19
Location : Atlanta, GA

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Ostlanders Ostlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Fri 24 Jul 2009 - 19:53

I'm trying to think of an existing case (in the official rules) where the Strength of an attack could be reduced to 0, and whether there is a rule to prevent this.

The best example I can think of right now would be a Halfling (S2) using his fist (-1S) against a Resilient hero (-1S).

Has there been any official, FAQ or Mod answer on this before?

If not, should S1 be the floor for any Strength-reducing effects?

If an attack can/is reduced to S0, would you extend the Wound chart so that S0 attacks could still Wound up to T3, or would you rule that S0 attacks cannot Wound at all, regardless of target Toughness? Judging from the wording on Zero-level characteristics, especially on WS0, I might presume that S0 attacks cannot wound at all, regardless of target Toughness.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://wyldhaunt.blogspot.com/
cianty
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 5274
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2007-09-27
Location : Berlin

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Monks (BTB) Monks (BTB)
Achievements earned: Silver Tom Silver Tom

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 3:52

I think it is important to differentiate between temporary level 0 chracteristics and permanent ones. If a model is permanently reduced to e.g. Toughness 0 (easily possible through Serious Injuries), then it will die. I think I did read that somewhere. I'm not sure if it is true for all characteristics considering that animals, e.g. sometimes have a WS of 0 (are hit automatically in combat) or BS 0 (cannot shoot at all). It seems apropriate that Strength 0 then means "cannot wound others at all" and Toughness 0 is "cannot live at all".

Temporarily having your Toughness reduced to 0 will most likely result in being taken out of action, but probably not permanently.

I don't think extending the to wound chart could ever be an official answer to that question. It would equal "we forgot something". It's not even logical or plausible anyways. Characteristics of "0" and "-" do exist in Warhammer and Mordheim and that is meant to indicate that a model cannot do the related action, such as shooting or fighting. With a Strength of 0, you simply cannot wound. Seems obvious to me. I mean, that's what it says... Strength 0 is "no Strength".. a hit with no Strength, a hit you don't even notice.

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/
Da Bank
Rules Guru
Rules Guru


Posts : 1866
Trading Reputation : 3
Join date : 2008-01-26

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 4:14

As Cianty noted there is nothing set in stone in the rulebook. With zero strength you could not wound in HTH.

It is one of those things the rulebook left up to the player to decide.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Paluke
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 759
Trading Reputation : 1
Join date : 2008-11-22
Age : 31
Location : Netherlands, Groningen

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 4:19

i would loet someone live with toughness 0 if the guy really wanted to lol! almost happened to a skaven with t1 he had two injuries that gave him -1 t jocolor

fact is, almost no one would want such a char to be in his warband, so most cases he get's sacked.

for the strength thingy, well if he had 0 strength, i'd give him a bow or something lol!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
StyrofoamKing
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1354
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-02-16
Age : 32
Location : Chantilly, DC

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Pirates (Unofficial) Pirates (Unofficial)
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 6:20

Well, the situation arises when you have a Halfling play the 'Last Orders' scenario.

Or, if you're playing the Snotling Warband that Ram Rock & I came up with.... although, that warband's HIGHLY unofficial, and we added in the rule to the warband that their strength couldn't be reduced below 1.
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/
rain9441
Champion
Champion


Posts : 41
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-06-05

Personal Info
Primary Warband played:
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 7:47

I'd agree. Strength of 0 cannot wound, but they can hit. Since they can hit, they can use poisons. So black lotus would give them autowound on 6 and dark venom would give them 1 str. If facing something with tentacles (removes one attack from someone) it could remove the 0 str attack.

No official wording, but it is an interpretation from the online rules.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
cianty
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 5274
Trading Reputation : 5
Join date : 2007-09-27
Location : Berlin

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Monks (BTB) Monks (BTB)
Achievements earned: Silver Tom Silver Tom

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 8:25

rain9441 wrote:
I'd agree. Strength of 0 cannot wound, but they can hit. Since they can hit, they can use poisons. So black lotus would give them autowound on 6 and dark venom would give them 1 str. If facing something with tentacles (removes one attack from someone) it could remove the 0 str attack.

No official wording, but it is an interpretation from the online rules.

Very good points. thumbsup

_________________
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://cianty-tabletop.blogspot.com/
wyldhunt
Elder
Elder


Posts : 337
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-06-19
Location : Atlanta, GA

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Ostlanders Ostlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 14:04

I completely understand the possibility and effects of a model's Strength characteristic being reduced to 0.

The weight of evidence shown on this thread, and opinions from responses, indicate that an S0 hit would not, by itself, have a chance to Wound, and I especially like rain9441's comments on this.

Even so, I see that Styromfoamking has already encountered this situation, and I have a feeling it's best for our group to house-rule that an attack's Strength cannot be reduced below 1. At least that'll give weaklings some kind of chance without having to extend the Wound chart.

Thanks, all!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://wyldhaunt.blogspot.com/
Popmouth
Ancient
Ancient


Posts : 479
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-10
Age : 29
Location : Gothemburg, Sweden

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Kislevites Kislevites
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 17:07

The person obviously dies or retires, to week to continue any further odysseys...
Really I don't know, it sounds more fun to actually play a 0S character.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Svenn
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 927
Trading Reputation : 1
Join date : 2009-04-15
Age : 33
Location : Maryland

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 17:18

The original question is asking about 0str from modifiers... Like if the model's actual strength was 1 and you do an offhand attack at -1 str, bringing that ATTACK to 0, NOT the model's strength.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.tabletopgeeks.com
ts061282
General
General


Posts : 192
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-06-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Undead Undead
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 19:02

Cross posted this over on the yahoo group. Good scenario with the halfling fist v resilient, Wyldhunt. I think my personal preference would be to set st 1 as minimum.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Dulu
Captain
Captain


Posts : 68
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-07-04
Age : 29
Location : Baltimore, MD

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Sisters of Sigmar Sisters of Sigmar
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 23:38

As others have said, strength 0 would mean you are not capable of wounding in hand to hand combat.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
wyldhunt
Elder
Elder


Posts : 337
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-06-19
Location : Atlanta, GA

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Ostlanders Ostlanders
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Tue 28 Jul 2009 - 18:31

Interesting result on the Mordheim Yahoo Group on this, which effectively says "yes" to reducing attacks to S0, and no Wound result possible, but "no" to increasing attacks beyond S10. Most of the reasoning relates this to entries on the Wound chart, and that characteristics can go to 0.

I say that reducing an attack's Strength below 1 is not the same is reducing the Strength characteristic to 0 - if we're going to restrict attacks to use the Wound chart, then we should restrict both ends, not just the top. I'm not arguing this on the Mordheim Yahoo Group, but it will be our house rule that an attack's Strength cannot be reduced below 1, and it cannot be increased beyond 10. Further, we're house-ruling that a Strength 0 model is not strong enough to Wound, nor wield a weapon or shield.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://wyldhaunt.blogspot.com/
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?   Today at 8:28

Back to top Go down
 
Can the Strength of an attack be reduced to Zero?
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 1 of 1
 Similar topics
-
» Review on set 8019 Republic attack shuttle
» DO YOU THINK SOCIAL SECURITY BENEFITS SHOULD BE REDUCED?
» Blue Eyes White Dragon Attack !
» Icarus Attack VS Dark Illusion
» adding a Signal strength meter

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum :: General Discussion :: Rules and Gameplay-
Jump to: