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 Warbands without Heavy Armor?

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Svenn
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PostSubject: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 10:18

There are a few Warbands who don't have Heavy Armor listed anywhere in their equipment lists (mostly unofficial ones... Lizardmen and Pirates are the two that I know of off the top of my head). Does this mean they just can't start with heavy armor? They can never purchase it? Can they use it?

It seems weird that Lizardmen would be able to use heavy armor because a) they have a save by default anyway and b) there is a specific rule that states that armor is really rare for lizardmen so light armor costs 50gc. It doesn't seem like they should be allowed heavy armor in that case.

Thoughts/suggestions?
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 11:39

Nope, no heavy armour (or Gromril/Ithilmar) unless you have it on your starting lists.

Main rulebook mentions it in the Warbands section under "Weapons and Armour". FAQs have also covered it for clarity.

Maybe try a skill to grant access to other armour types?

Iron Skin (Strength)

The warrior places great stock in absorbing hits rather than dodging them. Their fighting style incorporates armour types not normally used in their homeland and they may now use any type of armour they find/purchase, even those not on their starting equipment list.

Note this skill still prevents a wizard from casting spells without also having the Warrior Wizard skill.

Sturdy (Strength)

The warrior is well versed in maneuvring while wearing more cumbersome armours and may therefore ignore any movement penalties applied by armour (ie heavy armour and shield)

Sturdy was added as an afterthought for those unwilling or unable to find Ithilmar or Gromril.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 11:43

Can you point me to where the rulebook and/or FAQs have mentioned this for armor? I can't seem to find it.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 11:45

Rulebook p65. Weapons and Armour. Paragraph 2 of that subsection.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 11:46

Okay, found it under "Starting a Warband".

Quote :
You may buy additional equipment between battles, but your warriors can only use the weapons and armour listed in their warband entry.

So, who can use Gromril/Ithilmar then? Because it's not under anyone's warband entry as far as I know.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 11:46

Gromril and Ithilmar are materials and are a form of heavy armour.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 11:47

The ultimate FAQ at Mordheimer.com explicitly clears this up. Skaven are an official warband that has no access to heavy armour, by the way.

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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 11:51

cianty wrote:
The ultimate FAQ at Mordheimer.com explicitly clears this up. Skaven are an official warband that has no access to heavy armour, by the way.
Thanks, I was searching for "armor" on Mordheimer and missed this. Smile That clears it all up.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 13:08

Okay, just a few more questions... Can Henchman wear Gromril/Ithilmar? I don't see anywhere that says they couldn't so I would assume yes, though I can't imagine that happening often...

If Henchman CAN wear those armors... then what happens when you hire a new henchman for that group? Since you have to purchase them with all the same equipment, do they just automatically come with that armor (and you have to pay the full price for it)? Do you have to search for the armor to see if it's available before you hire the henchman?

Just some hypothetical stuff just in case... Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 13:51

Yes, Henchman may wear Gromril if they can wear normal heavy armour.

The rare roll would need to be made for the armour separately so you would have to have it avaiilable at the time you recruited the henchmen otherwise he wouldn't meet the criteria needed for recruitment into the group.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 16:38

There seems to be an interesting oversight in the wording of the Trading section, which can lead to confusion regarding armor. In the Mordheim Living Rulebook, the Trading section reiterates the restriction on weapons not on warband lists, but neglects to mention the restriction on armor not on warband lists. Since the Weapons and Armour section under "Starting a Warband" (pg 47 in the MLRB), specifically speaks to this restriction in buying equipment between scenarios, it would seem to apply.

Regarding whether Gromril is available to all henchmen who can wear Heavy Armor when the henchmen are first recruited to the warband, I would refer first to the Dwarf Treasure Hunter and Shadow Elves warband, which specifically include Gromril and Ithilmar weapons and armor - however, they are specifically included due to the reduced prices. So we can then flip to the actual "Weapons and Armor" section. MLRB page 27 talks about Gromril/Ithilmar weapons, with the cost multiplier, and page 35 talks about Gromril/Ithilmar armor, without the cost. We are told in the Trading section that the prices given there are specifically for existing warriors (implying those that are not newly-recruited). So we are left with the possibility of Gromril/Ithilmar armor for starting henchmen who can otherwise get Heavy Armor, without knowing the cost. The FAQ answer for this question is still somewhat vague, implying that Gromril/Ithilmar armor can be purchased for newly-recruited henchmen, but still not confirming a cost. Since the Trading chart multiplier for Gromril/Ithilmar weapons is the same as given under the "Weapons and Armour" section, it's a logical assumption to extend the Trading Chart price of Gromril/Ithilmar armor to suits purchased for new henchmen - however, this is still an assumption.

Is there any FAQ which specifically confirms that the cost of Gromril/Ithilmar armor on the Trading Chart is to be used when buying either for newly-recruited henchmen (who have Heavy Armour listed on their starting equipment list)?

BTW: I love the FAQ answer regarding Gromril daggers... It's also interesting that the question seems to assume only Dwarf warband members can begin with Gromril daggers, rather than anyone (which would be the logical extension of the Gromril armor answer given in the FAQ).
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Sun 19 Jul 2009 - 21:21

The reduced price on warband equipment lists us only used when the warband is first recruited.

New recruits may only be equipped with common items, unless there are rare items in the warband stash that they may use.

That comes from p5 of the Mordheim Rules Review (2005?) under "Post Battle Sequence".
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 8:20

catferret wrote:
The reduced price on warband equipment lists us only used when the warband is first recruited.

New recruits may only be equipped with common items, unless there are rare items in the warband stash that they may use.

That comes from p5 of the Mordheim Rules Review (2005?) under "Post Battle Sequence".
So does that mean that you can't hire henchman into a group you equip with gromril armor? It also says that new henchman must be purchased with the same equipment as the existing warriors.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 9:44

Correct.

Unless you have a spare suit of gromril armour in your stash already, you could not add a new henchmen to an existing group if they were wearing gromril armour.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 9:49

Quote :

Q: Rulebook, page 144 says: As with other new Henchmen, you must pay for all
their weapons and armor.... OK, I just found a Fletcher with 2 bows. Does it
mean that I cannot hire new marksman and give it one of bows I have found? Do I
have to pay for new bow for him as well?
A: Logically you can’t hire new marksman that don’t have their equipment already
– when somebody comes to City of Damned to offer his fighting services, he
already brings some equipment with him (and you have to pay for it). If you want
to recruit marksmen that know how to fire from bow, you wouldn’t look for guys
that just sit in a pub and say “I can shoot” but even has no missile weapon,
would you? Still you can buy two marksmen without bows, fight one battle and
give them the bows afterwards (as long as all marksmen in the group have the
same equipment). [recommended] Q: If I recruit a new warrior in the middle of campaign, what price of
equipment I pay for him? The price that is listed at my gang rules (he brought
the equipment with him from his home land)? Or the price in the Trading section
of rulebook (he came without equipment, I hired him, bought equipment in local
trading post and gave it to him)? Or can I freely choose?
A: Hiring a new warrior means that you take the fellow into the battle with you.
You don’t trust him before his first battle (well he might be spy or even
something worse) so you cannot buy him any rare items, you can’t give him any
equipment your warband have until he fights at least one battle with you. This
means all his equipment (incl. weapons and armor) he has he brought with
himself, so you pay the prices that are stated in the list in gang part of the
rules. After his first battle you can freely swap equipment between him and
other members of warband etc. [recommended]
I know those are "recommended" rules, but the way I understand it you are hiring them WITH the equipment. We've ruled with my gaming group that you can't hire a guy to a group and give him your existing equipment, he must come with his own. Using that rule, catferret, you could never hire another henchman to that group.
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PostSubject: Re: Warbands without Heavy Armor?   Mon 20 Jul 2009 - 14:00

My answer was straight from the official FAQ/errata.
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