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 Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*

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Popmouth
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Tue 21 Jul 2009 - 8:55

How come the -1S to off-hand rule does not apply to heroes?
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ts061282
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Tue 21 Jul 2009 - 9:59

Popmouth wrote:
How come the -1S to off-hand rule does not apply to heroes?

Because they're heroes? This was Dulu's suggestion, he can explain best. Anyway I think it's good to test as many variations as possible at this point. My personal preference would be for an off-hand weapon to receive the off-hand penalty unless you take a skill.
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Tewfik
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Tue 21 Jul 2009 - 16:18

Im always off on Sat and Sun, and usually home by 6 during the week.

Id be willing to play whenever is good for everyone seeing as im free on that day.

Ill be out of the state July 31st - Aug 2nd, other than that I dont have any major plans in the next few weeks...
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Dulu
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Wed 22 Jul 2009 - 3:51

Popmouth wrote:
How come the -1S to off-hand rule does not apply to heroes?


After talking with Tewfik a little about this, we came into the problem of heroes with weapons like 'Fighting Claws', 'Weeping Blades', etc that are used in pairs, and are generally expensive.

The reason, to my understanding, for playing with a penalty to dual weild - is to punish the people who mass henchmen, with club/dagger combos. Not to punish people for equipping their heroes with expensive weapons.
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Svenn
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Wed 22 Jul 2009 - 6:30

Dulu wrote:
Popmouth wrote:
How come the -1S to off-hand rule does not apply to heroes?


After talking with Tewfik a little about this, we came into the problem of heroes with weapons like 'Fighting Claws', 'Weeping Blades', etc that are used in pairs, and are generally expensive.

The reason, to my understanding, for playing with a penalty to dual weild - is to punish the people who mass henchmen, with club/dagger combos. Not to punish people for equipping their heroes with expensive weapons.
That's solved with a simple "Weapons that come in pairs do not suffer the -1S penalty" rule. That's what we've been using at our place. The problem is that no one has any reason to ever use shields or 2h weapons because dual wielding is just so much better... it doesn't matter whether it's heroes or henchman. The point is to bring them all in line with each other so each has advantages and disadvantages, but there is no clear "best" solution that is always used. What kind of strategy is there when everyone always uses dual wield?
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Dulu
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Wed 22 Jul 2009 - 17:49

Svenn wrote:
Dulu wrote:
Popmouth wrote:
How come the -1S to off-hand rule does not apply to heroes?


After talking with Tewfik a little about this, we came into the problem of heroes with weapons like 'Fighting Claws', 'Weeping Blades', etc that are used in pairs, and are generally expensive.

The reason, to my understanding, for playing with a penalty to dual weild - is to punish the people who mass henchmen, with club/dagger combos. Not to punish people for equipping their heroes with expensive weapons.
That's solved with a simple "Weapons that come in pairs do not suffer the -1S penalty" rule. That's what we've been using at our place. The problem is that no one has any reason to ever use shields or 2h weapons because dual wielding is just so much better... it doesn't matter whether it's heroes or henchman. The point is to bring them all in line with each other so each has advantages and disadvantages, but there is no clear "best" solution that is always used. What kind of strategy is there when everyone always uses dual wield?

By making Double Handed Weapons better (And possibly making them cheaper too), I feel it solves the problem without having to nerf anything.

Perhaps we could change 'Strikes Last' of Double Handed Weapons to '-1 Initiative, and if Initiative is tied, the weilder strikes last always'. Thoughts?
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hysteria75
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Thu 23 Jul 2009 - 14:42

i thought it might be a good idea but after thinking it through there's already a few ways i thought off the bat it could be abused especially against certain warbands. (remember there is a strength skill that you can take from the original rules to offset that and some warbands couldn't get it because of fluff)

about that subject me and a friend that used to play did this:

1) you may attack first when charging(as per normal weapon rules "like in fantasy battle") but after first round you 'strike last' (i highly recommend this one it work very nice)

2) if you could obtain an ithlimer(hope thats spelled right) version it would allow you to fight at your normal int. (no +1 as normal) at least that way you may bypass the skill even if you cant get it normally but....... you would have to get it through normal trading (sorry shadow elves not to start with) so you would have to do the rare roll and pay the large sum of money for it 45gc
or get lucky and find it through exploration

we found that this was the best way because you still earned the right for it

-plus would you like to see an int. 4 (-1 int) vampire str 6 2 attacks -3 to armor save 'cause fear' and 'cant be stunned' charging 12" in on just about anyone in any warband in the first game he was played all for the low sum of 15gc (i think they are powerful enough to start off with ) OUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

------------------------------just my 2 cents


Last edited by hysteria75 on Thu 23 Jul 2009 - 14:48; edited 1 time in total
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Svenn
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Thu 23 Jul 2009 - 14:46

Okay, the dual wield thread has convinced me that double handed weapons need no buffs... as long as the str penalty is in place for everyone. With the -1Str to offhand and 5+AS for shields... double handed weapons have the best chance of injuring an opponent in all cases. That comes at the expense of strike last (and thus needing to survive long enough to get to strike).

If you don't do -1STR to offhand, then dual wield is more powerful than double hand in most cases. If you only do -1STR to henchman, then you'd still really only see heroes dual wielding.
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hysteria75
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Thu 23 Jul 2009 - 15:00

although it will affect me greatly i agree on -1 str offhand for everyone including hero's except for weapons that are bought in pairs (fluff reason really)
i know it helps skaven out alot but remember by rules skaven also cant take hvy armour

you can always alow the skill "weapons training" to remove the penalty for everything else

i think if you play with
- -1str off hand including heros (except speacial weapons)
- +1 to all armour saves +2 shield save in hth
- double handed weapons do not have the strike last rule the first round if you charge

it should round out alot better

unfortunatly you cant make everyone happy about the rules
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hysteria75
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 11:28

i should have national guard the weekend of aug 8-9 ?
other than that i should be available any other weekend
weeknight evenings 6pm or after may be a go also
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hysteria75
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Sat 25 Jul 2009 - 16:28

well ive completed the touch-up of the minis. flat coat is drying. list is finalized and printed. everything is ready on my end. when their finally dry ill post some pics in the gallery.
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hysteria75
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Mon 3 Aug 2009 - 18:55

well if we are still trying to do this i have guard this weekend(8-9 aug) but i should be available those days at 6pm or later other than that im good just about anytime after 6pm weekdays any time during the weekends this month
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Dulu
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PostSubject: Re: Glen Burnie, MD ~POSTPONED~ Campaign *GW Store*   Mon 3 Aug 2009 - 20:19

hysteria75 wrote:
well if we are still trying to do this i have guard this weekend(8-9 aug) but i should be available those days at 6pm or later other than that im good just about anytime after 6pm weekdays any time during the weekends this month


We will do it eventually.

I'm in the final stretch of my summer courses, and handling a lot of career stuff right now.

After Aug. 19th, my schedule will free up big time.

Stay tuned! We will definitely be playing sometime before the end of September! geek
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