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 All Heroes are Dead

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TheFool
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PostSubject: All Heroes are Dead   Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 20:17

So...

3 Dwarf Heroes and 3 Dwarf Henchmen.

The leader, engineer and troll slayer all become OOA... and die.

Besides the obvious choice of restarting... this still brought up the curious question of WHAT THE HELL happens when this happens.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 20:30

LOL

You get rid of those dice...

I see no curious question. In game terms nothing happens, why should it?
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 21:05

Von Kurst wrote:
LOL

You get rid of those dice...

I see no curious question. In game terms nothing happens, why should it?

Well this presents two obvious problems to me.

Who the heck becomes the Leader? Can henchmen even be leaders?

How many dice do you roll in the exploration phase? Can you buy rare items?


I think at the point you have lost all your heroes, and cant buy new ones - its game over, and you might as well re-roll.
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 22:07

If I understand the game correctly...
Dulu wrote:
Who the heck becomes the Leader? Can henchmen even be leaders?

How many dice do you roll in the exploration phase? Can you buy rare items?
No one.. yet. Yes, if the Lad's Got Talent, he'd be in the normally succession path for Heroes.

None. Nope.

Without remaking the band and playing with just the henchmen, you can get another leader by:

Somehow gathering 50 gold and buying an Engineer or Slayer.

In some scenarios--Wyrdstone Hunt, Chance Encounter, Hidden Treasure--you can make money without heroes as long as your gaming group allows you to sell Wyrdstone without a leader (the book says "A warband leader is also expected to share any profits made by selling wyrdstone", but doesn't say you need a leader to sell the stones), otherwise only Hidden Treasure nets you gold.

You can also sell gear you have now on the Henchmen or hope to make cash of your opponents injury table rolls (Captured).

Keep Playing until a Lad Gets Talent

It'll happen eventually! And faster than you think with your underdog experience bonus Razz . You'll want to rout clean and get lucky on the injury roll of the downed Henchman to help make this as easy as possible.

If you can somehow get a talented lad, remake a full complement of Heroes, make enough to equip them and catch up to other warbands in the campaign...
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Wed 8 Jul 2009 - 22:28

perfesser wrote:
If I understand the game correctly...
Dulu wrote:
Who the heck becomes the Leader? Can henchmen even be leaders?

How many dice do you roll in the exploration phase? Can you buy rare items?
No one.. yet. Yes, if the Lad's Got Talent, he'd be in the normally succession path for Heroes.

None. Nope.

Without remaking the band and playing with just the henchmen, you can get another leader by:

Somehow gathering 50 gold and buying an Engineer or Slayer.

In some scenarios--Wyrdstone Hunt, Chance Encounter, Hidden Treasure--you can make money without heroes as long as your gaming group allows you to sell Wyrdstone without a leader (the book says "A warband leader is also expected to share any profits made by selling wyrdstone", but doesn't say you need a leader to sell the stones), otherwise only Hidden Treasure nets you gold.

You can also sell gear you have now on the Henchmen or hope to make cash of your opponents injury table rolls (Captured).

Keep Playing until a Lad Gets Talent

It'll happen eventually! And faster than you think with your underdog experience bonus Razz . You'll want to rout clean and get lucky on the injury roll of the downed Henchman to help make this as easy as possible.

If you can somehow get a talented lad, remake a full complement of Heroes, make enough to equip them and catch up to other warbands in the campaign...


I can not imagine 3 Dwarf henchmen good enough to warrant NOT remaking the warband immediately.

And in order for them to receive Lad's Got Talent, they would need to get experience. What the heck are 3 Dwarf henchmen going to be able to do against (presumably) Warbands that have played atleast a few games.

In order for them to be able to voluntarily route - they would have to lose a member, and risk him dying again.

Statistically speaking - its more likely for all of your henchmen to die, than you getting LGT.


You've got my respect for even contemplating carrying on, but at this point, I'd tell my little Dwarves to go home, and I'd throw in the towel.


lol!
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 0:03

Oh, I just had an epiphany!

Sell your henchmens gear, to get the gold to buy new heroes!
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 0:08

In the unlikely event of a warband losing all its heroes and the player being willing to continue with it, I'd be tempted to let the henchman with the highest leadership (and XP, if needed to decide) immediately roll LGT and become the warband's captain. The other hero slots can be filled through hiring if/when money allows.
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 1:03

The verdict is in and that is the decision!

My great little Thunderer has seized the moment and stepped forward as the warband's new leader. With a a Clansmen and Beardling by his side and only a dwarf axe, a mace and a handgun to share between them...

'Ludge's Last Stand' was quick and sure and now the young guild of dwarves has a new name, 'For the Glory of Ludge'

I hope there is some glory to be had Razz
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 6:16

yo the man bro! my heart goes out to you on this one, lost a vampire lord to a gobo once, 4 rounds of combat and all i roled was 1's and 2's he eventually knocked me off of the walkway and bye bye lord morbius, following which i lost the necro to a troll vomit attack. i lost the urge to continue with dregs and shelved the warband for prosterity. but praise be to Ludge and the valiant few.
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Thu 9 Jul 2009 - 6:37

I would have said that with no Leader the Henchmen would drift off to join another warband, rather than struggling on on their own. Henchmen who haven't "got talent" don't have the gumption to organise themselves - that's why they are Henchmen, not Heroes! There stats aren't much worse than a Hero's stats in many cases, so there must be something else that sets them apart.

Personally, I would start a new warband and use the old Henchmen's names for the new ones - any experience gained can be quietly ignored...

But props to you for soldiering on! Very much in the Dwarf character. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Sat 17 Oct 2009 - 6:45

WarbossKurgan wrote:

But props to you for soldiering on! Very much in the Dwarf character.

Yeah. Do not go gentle into that good night!


PS: Retiiire...make new band. Wohoo.
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Sat 17 Oct 2009 - 7:01

Be a Dwarf and carry on I'd say! The games won't last that long Razz and you will get loads of extra underdog experience.

While losing all the time can be a pain there could come a turning point if luck goes your way and its only a game, it will be fun an interesting to see if they can survive and make a viable warband again.

This is how legends are born Very Happy

If you are carrying on keep us informed of how each battle goes!!
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Mon 19 Oct 2009 - 0:23

Don't forget, you're playing dwarfs! This means that you always add +1 dice to your exploration (and +1 if you win), so even when you lose a game with this all-henchies band you roll 1 exploration die, and if you managed to win a game you'd roll 2.

Now that your thunderer has promoted himself, as long as he doesn't go OoA you'll be rolling 2 exploration dice, 3 if you win! Dwarfs for the win cheers !
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Sun 25 Oct 2009 - 7:52

Dwarfs do not add +1 dice for exploration, they add +1 to pieces found.
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Sun 25 Oct 2009 - 11:38

JAFisher44 wrote:
Dwarfs do not add +1 dice for exploration, they add +1 to pieces found.
Haha, yes that's right, obviously it's been a while since I've played dwarfs! The point being, as dwarfs even with no heroes you're always making some income.
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Sun 25 Oct 2009 - 11:42

I would disagree. If you don't search you don't find anything. I know it delves a bit into the fluff of the warband, but the reason they get +1 stone is because they are good at looking for it, not because it magically appears in their pocket. If no one looks nothing is found. This would be the same if all of your Heroes went OOA in a scenario.
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Sun 25 Oct 2009 - 11:49

JAFisher44 wrote:
I would disagree. If you don't search you don't find anything. I know it delves a bit into the fluff of the warband, but the reason they get +1 stone is because they are good at looking for it, not because it magically appears in their pocket. If no one looks nothing is found. This would be the same if all of your Heroes went OOA in a scenario.
To me, however, this implies that the Henchmen are incapable of finding wyrdstone on their own. While in other warbands the henchmen may not have the expertise to know how/where to go about searching for it, the "incomparable miners" is a universal trait amongst the dwarves, and even those less skilled in warband leadership know how to dig up some treasure. However, this is my interpretation, I can see it going both ways though.
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Sun 25 Oct 2009 - 12:18

I don't think they should get the +1 wyrdstone when none of their Heroes has explored. Fact is, Henchmen don't explore in Mordheim and the Incomparable Miners rule is meant to imply that the Dwarfs are better at exploring than others - not that their Henchmen are exploring in addition.

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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Sun 25 Oct 2009 - 16:12

cianty wrote:
I don't think they should get the +1 wyrdstone when none of their Heroes has explored. Fact is, Henchmen don't explore in Mordheim and the Incomparable Miners rule is meant to imply that the Dwarfs are better at exploring than others - not that their Henchmen are exploring in addition.
Read the section on exploration suggests that Henchmen do in fact search the ruins, but that the guidance of the Heroes is what allows their searches to be fruitful..

TLRB, p. 93 (last paragraph before the Rolling Multiples section):
Quote :
Do not roll for Henchmen. This does not mean that they do not search the ruins, but instead represents the efforts of the Heroes in coordinating the search parties.
Emphasis mine. The fluff would suggest that the henchmen look, but rely on the heroes to guide their searches - hence only rolling dice for Heroes and not Henchmen. Thus, without any Heroes to lead them, a normal warband's Henchmen would be at a loss as to where to begin looking. Conversely, the Dwarfs are able to fall back on their skills as m iners to collect 1 shard, whereas with the aide of more experienced warriors they would dig up much more.

Although it's an unlikely scenario that there will be no heroes there to conduct the search, it obviously can (and does) happen and it seems to me that if the "incomparable miners" special rule weren't intended to benefit them in this scenario it would be indicated somehwere in the rules. Nothing I've read in the rules states or even suggests that a warband without standing heroes isn't allowed to explore for wyrdstone, but rather that they simply don't get any dice for exploration from standing heroes. Dwarfs will employ their mining skills, and other warbands (if they miraculously win a battle) will have more time to search the battlefield at their leisure and collect 1 shard (2 if they're lucky).
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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Mon 26 Oct 2009 - 1:01

Hmm, good point there, Myntokk about henchmen searching as well.

I do doubt that the author even remotedly had such a scenario in mind when writing the rules. Anyways, if I had an opponent who wanted to contiue his all-henchmen warband for whatever reason by use of this rule, then I surely would let him.

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PostSubject: Re: All Heroes are Dead   Today at 14:51

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