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 A new solution for balance!

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Paluke
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PostSubject: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 5:50

Dear fellow Mordheimers,

Yesterday it just came to mind how to fix the imbalance that comes from dualwield. And at the same time make shields / twohanders betetr. all in one fix!

This is the plan (i need playtesters for this though Smile )


Equipping a weapon in the offhand doesn't add +1 attack, instead it offers +1 on the to hit roll (ws Vs ws comparison) in essence, that is why you want to have two hits, to have more chance of hitting.

So in other words, it will be counted as just one weapon, but with various benefits! examples below:

Dagger in offhand = it's free, offers +1 to hit, but comes with the penalty of 6+ armoursave.
Club/hammer/mace in offhand = adds the concussion rule to your attack (aka stun on 2-4)
Axe in offhand = gives your attack -1 to opponents armour save.
Sword in offhand adds the parry rule to your attack, or a re-roll if you already have parry.


Exceptions:

Every weapon that has to come in pairs and cannot be switched (like the skaven claw) will keep their bonus of +1 attack.


Small revision of buckler:
Buckler: you may parry an attack but when combined with a sword you either may reroll one parry or parry two different attacks.



furthermore under combat skills add this one:

Dual Wield Specialisation:

The warrior has mastered the art of dual wielding and may add +1 attack when fighting with two one hand weapons.


What do you think??

I know it's a very dared approach and its a change in the core of mordheim. But i really think this can help balance! without much fuss!
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Paluke
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 10:13

Is this so dared that no one wants to reply? Sad
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 10:18

Paluke wrote:
Is this so dared that no one wants to reply? Sad

I suggest giving it some time. Bear in mind that the people on this board are from all across the world and so live in different time zones. Plus not everyone has the free time to post every day. I'm sure you'll get some feedback from some of the rules guys soon. Smile

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Paluke
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 10:22

haha Wink indeed cianty Embarassed

But i saw it had 13 views already and those were not all mine Evil or Very Mad
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Pathfinder Dubstyles
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 10:30

OK, seems like a good alternative, but what happens when you have an axe in your good hand and a club in the off hand. Do you get -1 save and concussion on the same attack which is at +1 to hit?

Why would you get to re-roll a parry with two swords? You can't do that in the regular rules.

Let me know ho the playtest goes i am always looking for house rules to address the dual wield situation.
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Svenn
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 10:40

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
OK, seems like a good alternative, but what happens when you have an axe in your good hand and a club in the off hand. Do you get -1 save and concussion on the same attack which is at +1 to hit?

Why would you get to re-roll a parry with two swords? You can't do that in the regular rules.
I would say that you would need to give both bonuses to make sure dual wield isn't underpowered. I also think the re-roll a parry is fair using these rules since you are losing out on an extra attack, which is huge.
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 10:48

Hmm, after thinking about it... how does this work for multiple attacks? Does EVERY attack get +1 to hit or just 1?
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Popmouth
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 12:26

The idea is interesting, though I think the problems that are stated above are quite reasonable. I am in slight favor of the -1 to hit with additional hand weapons rule.
- popmouth
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 13:26

I think I would prefer the -1 to hit with two hand weapons but I'll give this a playtest if I get a free battle.
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Paluke
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 13:54

Svenn wrote:
Hmm, after thinking about it... how does this work for multiple attacks? Does EVERY attack get +1 to hit or just 1?

yeah there are a few probs to iron out.. i would say, both would get +1 to hit.. but then we have a vampire maniac = (

hmm it looked far better in theory... Sad
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Wed 6 May 2009 - 17:21

very original solution!

though it has the disadvantage of being counter-intuitive Sad

anyway, I like it! - we need more players re-thinking imbalanced mechanics, IMO.
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hero
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Sat 9 May 2009 - 14:50

Could someone bother to do the math for this to see exactly how this compares to the normal rules and the -1 to hit rules?
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robertrunner
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Sat 9 May 2009 - 15:42

Alright so I ran a couple numbers with several assumptions to make things easier to calculate. In general when two models have equal WS you need 4 or better so you have a 50% chance to hit. Using the rule where you add one to hit now 3 or better would do and your odds increase to 67% to hit. Using the alternative where the off hand gets a -1 you would have primary 4 or better and off hand 5 or better. Looking at this a couple ways you either have a 50% chance of hitting once plus a 17% chance of hitting twice or you have a 67% chance of hitting once or twice. You can see that the difference is very little. In general the -1 to off hand is ever so slightly better because of that chance at two hits. If you want to run chance to wound in there I will need to run some more numbers I just figured to hit was all we really cared about. Although this is a novel way to handle two weapons I am still in favor of the -1 to off hand for its simplicity.
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Sat 9 May 2009 - 16:33

Oh just read that you wanted normal rules calculated as well so I ran those too. 50% for a single hit 25% for two hits. Overall a 75% chance you hit at least once. I would say significantly more powerful.
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Paluke
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Sun 7 Jun 2009 - 10:12

what about this:

no more than 25% of the warband's current members rounded up may dual wield weapons.
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PostSubject: Re: A new solution for balance!   Today at 18:50

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