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PostSubject: Some Questions   Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 19:33

Hey folks, I'm new here and have some questions about a few things.

1. First of all, is there any use for the Skaven special skill "Wall Runner" if you have the option to get the Speed skill "Scale Sheer Surfaces?" SSS appears to simply be a better version of WR since it lets you climb/descend double you movement, and read literally WR doesn't add any benefit if you climb down a surface.

2. Is there any skill or ability that removes the need to start your turn next to the wall you wish to climb? (per "Climbing" p. 11)

3. Is there any rule preventing one from stacking the effect of the Academic skill "Haggle" from multiple characters on one item purchase?

4. What defensive benefit, if any, would a skaven model get for using Fighting Claws + a Sword (via Tail Fighting)? Can the model still only parry one attack or can he parry two attacks (one with a re-roll)?

5. If your most direct charge path means falling/jumping down, can you take a less direct charge path (eg, down a ramp or ladder)?

6. INTERCEPTION: Can an enemy within 2" of where your charger is falling/jumping down still intercept your charge? If so, does the intercepting model also have to take falling tests? Does one of both models qualify for a Diving Charge?

7. INTERCEPTION: If an enemy model charges one of my models, and the charged model has another friendly model behind it within 2" of the where the enemy model will complete its charge, may the second friendly model intercept and join in the combat? May the intercepting model cut off the charge to the first model entirely?

8. May a player with the Speed skill "Leap" choose to travel less than the distance indicated by the dice roll?

9. Can anyone wear Gromril Armour?

10. Are there multiple level of "Strike First" or is it a binary state that you either have or don't have? ie, if a model with the Speed skill "Lightning Reflexes" and armed with a Spear is charged, does the charged model automatically strike first over the charger or do they strike in Initiative order?

11. Can models with multiple melee attacks wait to see the result of an attack before rolling to hit with the next attack or must all targets be declared before any dice are rolled?

12. If a model who is armed with a Flail knocks down or stuns all opponents in hand to hand, then is charged by another enemy model in the enemy turn, does the model armed with the Flail get +2 Strength for the first turn of fighting the new enemy model? Assume the model with the Flail is still in base contact with knocked down or stunned enemies. I suppose this question turns on whether the model with the Flail is still "in hand to hand combat" with the downed enemies. To further complicate this, would the Flail user get teh +2 Strength on the following turn if it attempts to dispath a knocked down player that never left base contact?

13. Can a model with the Shooting skill "Pistolier" fire two pistol shots every turn if armed with two braces of pistols?

That's it for now. I know... it's a lot to digest. I just got done reading the rules more thouroughly and these are the questions I wrote down as I went through it. If it isn't too much trouble, please provide a reference to where you found the answer to a question. Thanks in advance for your info.
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Identity
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 21:45

1. The only use for this skill is if you promote a henchmen and take the skaven special skills list and not the speed skills list.

2. No. Many groups houserule some way around this though. (My group just removed that qualification).

3. According to the rules as written, it seems like it can stack on one item.

4. He can still only parry 1 attack. Note: additional swords DO NOT allow you to reroll parries by the official rules. Only sword/buckler and models with special skills can reroll parries.

5. Yes, you make take the most direct path which does not put the model in peril from terrain. I can't find the rules specifically stating this, but I'm quite sure that's the case.

6. If the enemy intercepts before you reach the place to jump from, then no one takes an initiative test; you fight the combat where the 2 models meet above the drop.

7. This point is somewhat contested. The general consensus is that any model standing behind the model being charged cannot intercept for it. This is supported by the shaded area in the diagram in the rulebook (actual rulebook, not the online .pdf in which the interception diagram is corrupt).

8. Yes

9. No. Gromril and Ithilmar armor are types of heavy armor. Only a model capable of wearing heavy armor may wear them.

10. Currently, it's a binary state. You either have it, or you don't, and if you both have it, you resort to initiative.

11. Melee attacks must all be assigned before rolling begins. For instance, when fighting against multiple models, you can't do one attack at a time. (Note: some groups houserule that you can do attacks one at a time).

12. I would say yes, although some might dispute me. My reasoning is due to this passage of the rulebook: "if all a modelís close combat opponents are knocked down or stunned, he may move away from the combat if you wish, and even charge other enemies within range." If he's able to charge other enemies, it would seem he's be able to gain the same benefits for knocked down and stunned models right next to him.

13. This has been contested recently. The general consensus appears to be no. He can fire 2 pistols, then fire 2 pistols the next turn, but if he fires on the turn after that, it will only be 1 pistol. It will take a turn of no shooting to fully reload each brace before it can once again fire twice. (Although my group allows shooting twice each turn cause it seems more fun).

Wow, that's a lot of questions.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Mon 27 Apr 2009 - 23:39

Thank you very much Identity. That sheds a lot of light on some issues. I stumbled into other questions when planning a warband:

14. Can Henchman "groups" consisting of 1 member hire additional experienced members with the same advances to increase their size? Can a "group" with no living members hire experienced members with the advances of the once living group members? In other words, does a group and its advances persist even without any group members.

15. Is there a way to trim heroes and/or henchmen from your roster without them dying? ie, can I fire models I no longer want on my roster? If so, at what point in the post match sequence can this be done? For example, could I make advance rolls for Henchmen, get a "Lad's got talent" result, and fire one of my existing heroes to make room for the new Henchman/Hero?

I also wanted to clarify my question 6: Picture this: Hero with Acrobatics standing on edge of 12" building is charging someone on ground level. 6" directly below the hero on a middle floor is an enemy. The path of the charger's fall will take the charger within 2" of the enemy on the middle floor. Can this enemy on the middle floor intercept the charger? If so, how does falling and diving charge play into this scenario?
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 0:50

14. When there's one member, yes. However, once a group is reduced to zero members, the group is erased. It is gone and you can no longer hire members into it.

15. Yes. On page 78 of the updated .pdf rulebook it states, "You can also dismiss any warrior in your warband at any time."

6x. Wow, that's a very specific question you've got there. If the model is only within 2" of the charge path while the charger is airborne, I would imagine that you're not able to intercept. However, if my opponent wanted to intercept by diving down with the charging model, I would let him cause that sounds like a hilariously fun time.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 1:29

Thanks again Identity.

I have a follow-up question to 15: Say I have a Skaven warband and fire my Assassin. Now one of my Black Skaven becomes the warband leader (they have the highest Ld and exp). Do I now have a vacant slot to buy anohter Black Skaven since one was promoted to leader or are both my Black Skaven slots still taken (in which case I could only get a sixth hero through "Lad's got talent!")?
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 5:04

No, even if a model gets promoted it still takes up a slot. (Many people have tried to get an 8th marksman 'cos one of them got TLGT.)
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 5:54

Identity is on like Donkey Kong!

Indeed the official rules regarding #13 are a mess. Considering the expense of 4 pistols, I'd allow the hero to continuously fire twice even though the strictest interpretation of the skill is what Identity said.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 12:51

I have a problem with Question 3. Yes, it vaguely could be construed as possible, but not totally. For common items, I would agree. For Rare, no.

Here's Why:

When searching for rare items, each hero has to roll and search for that specific item. Then, he can haggle with it. Now, as per the rules, you can haggle if you have the skill, BUT, there are two options here:

1 - Hero 1 rolls to search for Rare Item 1. Success! Now, he can haggle. Then, Hero 2 would have to roll as well, to SEARCH for the item as well, as it's the rules. Success! He too has found Rare Item 1. Now, you can either allow them to haggle together to bring down the cost, OR, go with option 2.

2 - Each Hero would have to search for their own rare items, and haggle on EACH INDIVIDUAL item they found. So, if Hero 1 found Rare Item 1, then that's it, no more aid, as the other Heroes, even if they succeed on the Rarity Roll, their Rare Item 1 is not the same exact rare item as the other Rare Item 1. Look at it as if they each had to go to different merchants to find something worth purchasing.

Personally, I would go with option 2, from reading the rules. It says that the Haggle skill is to be used on any single item. Heroes can only search for one rare item per trip to the market, assuming they were not taken OOA on the previous match. That single hero has found, if successful with the roll, that sinlge item that was searched for.

just my two groats...
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 13:31

PitFigher,

I see where you're going with this, but I'd discourage trying to come up with a roleplaying reason to justify it or not. Note that neither of your explanations explain how each hero who searches for items has access to the entire money horde of the entire warband.... you'd have to assume that a hero needs to go back to gang hideout (or whatever) to clear the buy with the warband leader and collect the cash.

I picture the heroes each going out alone to see what they find, then meeting up again to decide what to buy and sending one or more warband members to purchase it. The purchaser could bring the Hallgers with him to browbeat the merchant into a lower price.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 14:02

PorkSocks wrote:
PitFigher,

I see where you're going with this, but I'd discourage trying to come up with a roleplaying reason to justify it or not. Note that neither of your explanations explain how each hero who searches for items has access to the entire money horde of the entire warband.... you'd have to assume that a hero needs to go back to gang hideout (or whatever) to clear the buy with the warband leader and collect the cash.

I picture the heroes each going out alone to see what they find, then meeting up again to decide what to buy and sending one or more warband members to purchase it. The purchaser could bring the Hallgers with him to browbeat the merchant into a lower price.

Each hero can search for 1 rare item. You can only buy 1 item per successful roll. Guess it's possible, but, like all unclear questions/rule concerns, clear it with your campaign members BEFORE the campaign starts, so that everyone is on the same page.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 14:25

PorkSocks wrote:
Thanks again Identity.

I have a follow-up question to 15: Say I have a Skaven warband and fire my Assassin. Now one of my Black Skaven becomes the warband leader (they have the highest Ld and exp). Do I now have a vacant slot to buy anohter Black Skaven since one was promoted to leader or are both my Black Skaven slots still taken (in which case I could only get a sixth hero through "Lad's got talent!")?

I don't think you can fire your leader, can you? The rules for each warband say you must have one _____ (insert leader type here) "no more, no less". The only way to get rid of them is if they die.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 14:46

Campaigns section, p. 78, under "Disbanding Warbands":

"You can also dismiss any warrior in your warband at any time."

Emphasis added.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 14:53

You still adhere to the max of types. 0-2 Black Skaven means just that. They are still the same, a Black Skaven, now acting as Leader with the Leadership Skill.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 15:26

PitFighterTrainer wrote:
You still adhere to the max of types. 0-2 Black Skaven means just that. They are still the same, a Black Skaven, now acting as Leader with the Leadership Skill.

Yeah, that is my conclusion as well.

My current dillema is whether or not to fire my Eshin Sorceror to make room for a "lad's got talent" hero. Sorcs have 4 exp worth of advances over a LGT hero but the only advantage they have is skaven spell access (which kinda sucks except for the free rats spell) and an extra skill list choice that kinda sucks. I think I'd rather have an LGT with Speed and Shooting or Speed and Strength skills... maybe even Shooting + Academic.

As it stands, my sorc is just a rat summoning bot (we allow casters to choose spells) who can Haggle. Oh yeah, he occassionally fires a sling.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Tue 28 Apr 2009 - 15:31

Keep the sorcerer, as he gets you income. Unless you have your max, then you have to choose. I don't believe you can get the LGT roll, then fire your sorcerer to make the room. So, wait until you are 1 game away from a henchman advance, and cross your fingers!
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Wed 29 Apr 2009 - 7:17

PorkSocks wrote:
Campaigns section, p. 78, under "Disbanding Warbands":

"You can also dismiss any warrior in your warband at any time."

Emphasis added.

Yes, but this makes me think otherwise:

"If the leader of the warband is slain, the Hero with the next highest Leadership value takes command."

It makes no mention of a new leader by any other means than death. It seems a bit silly to me to "fire" the leader of the warband.
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PostSubject: Re: Some Questions   Wed 29 Apr 2009 - 10:33

Quote :

It makes no mention of a new leader by any other means than death. It seems a bit silly to me to "fire" the leader of the warband.

I'm not saying I'm going to do it, I just wanted to know what the options are. I would only ever consider it if it could give me another Black Skaven, which it can't. Black Skaven seem to be (from my newbish analysis) the best long-term hero available (maybe even across all lists if you exclude vampires).
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