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 Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)

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squattingmouse
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PostSubject: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Thu 9 Apr 2009 - 12:20

How heavily equipped are your heroes? We're drawing our first campaign to a halt soon and restarting after we made some mistakes interpreting the rules which gives us an opportunity to rethink our equipment. My henchmen worked out fine but I'm asking myself if I should sacrifice numbers and enter combat a bit better equipped. Here's what I started with in addition to the free dagger:

Captain - doublehanded weapon, duelling pistol
Sergeant (champion) - sword, buckler
Youngblood - Sword, bow
2 bergjaegers - longbow

I've already decided to ditch the bow on the youngblood. I'm contemplating hunting arrows for the berjaaegers but at 30gcs for +1 to injury rolls it seems quite expensive. I'm also wondering about giving the sergeant a missile weapon. I kow the doublehanded weapon isn't the best choice but I really like the model. Any offers?
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Thu 9 Apr 2009 - 13:07

that's a bad line up. you should get hunting arrows for the b.j.s down the line, but not at the start

i agree with you with the b.j. setup.
the y.b. should have two clubs
and the sargeant too
the double handed weapon is not worth it for the captain

duelling pistols are very good and worth their cost, try getting 1, maybe 2 from start. though numbers are more important, so get a nice big warband from the start
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Thu 9 Apr 2009 - 14:48

New version after looking at what Asp's said -

Captain - sword and brace of pistols#
Youngblood - sword (models already has one and I haven't got any hammers in the spares bin and the free dagger will give him a second attack)
Sergeant - sword, buckler, pistol (the sword and buckler worked out really well and allowed him hold his own against some seriously powerful characters)
2 bergjaeger - longbow

Should give my heroes a bit more flexibility. Any more thoughts? It means abandoning the captain I've just finished painting though Crying or Very sad
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Thu 9 Apr 2009 - 17:38

I'm surprised you're playing WYSIWYG in your first campaign! That's quite a feat for your group. Right now it's probably a bit of a pain, but it will surely pay off in the long run.

Asp has already given very good advice. Human mercenaries should start with numbers over good equipment. A henchmen with a dagger and club is typically more bang for your buck than you will get anywhere else. Remember to to field lots of the type of henchmen you want to promote in your starting warband.

Pistols are awful compared to dueling pistols, so by all means, spend the extra cash to get your captain the brace of dueling pistols. I'd give the Bergjaegers an extra dagger or mace in case their position is threatened. I generally don't start with swords, upgrading to them later in the campaign, but with WYSIWYG rules, you can keep them without too much effect on your starting funds. The only other possibility I see is giving someone a crossbow to start, depending on if you wanted to make one of your non-Bergjaegers a shooty-hero).
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Fri 10 Apr 2009 - 8:32

The overall plan is to have my Captain and Sergeant advance with my Mountain guard group (three with spears). Firepower comes from the bergjaegers and three halflings with bows. The youngblood is an oddity. He can either be used to grab objectives, offer some protection to the halflings (or at least give them time to run away) or to aid in the advance.

Having read the rules I agree about the duelling pistols but can't quite stretch to giving hima brace even by dropping the sergeants pistol so.....

Captain - sword, ONE duelling pistol
Sergeant - sword, buckler, pistol
youngblood - sword
2 Bergjaegers - longbow, 2nd dagger

With my two henchmen groups this brings total cost to 499 gcs. I'm still uncertain between a brace of pistols or one duelling pistol.. Does the extra accruacy actually pay of over the rate of fire?
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Fri 10 Apr 2009 - 10:37

Quote :
With my two henchmen groups this brings total cost to 499 gcs. I'm still uncertain between a brace of pistols or one duelling pistol.. Does the extra accruacy actually pay of over the rate of fire?


Think about it, pistols have 6" range, they will rarely get to fire two turns in a row, as you will either get charged or wanna charge.

Duelling pistols on the other hand have 10" range, which means they can easily fire of a shot before combat ensues.

In close combat, the 10 gold extra for the duelling pistol is also ridicolous. As your sergeant and your captain has a weapon skill of 4, they will hit most targets on 2+, and with s4 they'll wound them on 3+, meaning you have 4/6*5/6 = 20/36 , meaning you have with just this one attack more than 50% chance of getting to injury rolls, if you charge in with a companion, you have a pretty good chance of actually taking out you opponent in one turn.
Even with the two attacks from the brace, you have to remember that your hero can carry a weapon in his other hand as well, if you give him a sword, he will have some measure of defense, as well as a little extra offense.
Getting +1 to hit is one of the best things you can get in Mordheim, as the to hit table is much more forgiving than the to wound table.

Also, those nifty 10" range come in very handy when you are fighting in buildings or other similar places, 6" range wont really hit much that isn't in close combat, but 10" range is quite good, and remember that you have to be within 3" with a pistol to not be in long range, meaning it will most of the time suffer an extra -1 to hit (most players don't play short/long range on pistols, and I don't think they should, but according to the book there is long range on pistols) While the duelling pistols will get their full to hit ability at 5" range, almost the range of the regular pistol, meaning most of the time, it will be at +2 to hit better than the pistol.

So in order of power what you should get with a human merc warband would be:
More men,
Duelling pistols,
crossbows.

All of which are horrendously more powerful than their cost insinuates.

On a side note, I'd re-think the longbows, do you really need that 6" extra range? Wont a regular bow do? Take into account how much terrain there usually is on the table, and what range you'll be facing. Remember that you are paying 50% more for 6 inches.
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Fri 10 Apr 2009 - 10:44

Master - you beat me to the maths! I just reached the same conclusion as you.

The thinking behind the longbows is that it isn't an extra 6 inches range but an extra three inches before shooting at long range which has lead to my two berjaegers giving a group of reiklanders a nasty surprise by taking three out of action in one turn (I love quick shot).
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Fri 10 Apr 2009 - 11:06

I can't see me shifting from this set up to be honest -

Captain - sword, brace of dueling pistols
Sergeant - sword, buckler,
Youngblood - sword
2 bergjaegers - bow, 2nd dagger

The longbow has been really useful during our first campaign as we do throw in the odd rural scenario and the range is really helpful there. However as its a common item I should be able to pick some up or try for elf bows for the bergaegers. It would be nice to give a dueling pistol to the sergeant but I've already used the one in a holster on my previous captain model with the double handed weapon. The other one is now attached to the new captain (hopefully pics appearing soon ish)

This brings the total warband cost to 499 with my henchmen groups.
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Thu 16 Apr 2009 - 14:27

Don't you get bored with the very idea of always having club and knife or double clubs?
I believe you quite kill the sports of mordheim, always picking the most optimal equipment...

Though, if we must - the duelling pistol get's really neat if your character is given the Eagle Eyes skill - 16'' have proved far to often to be great
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Thu 16 Apr 2009 - 18:17

Popmouth wrote:
Don't you get bored with the very idea of always having club and knife or double clubs?
I believe you quite kill the sports of mordheim, always picking the most optimal equipment...
It seems logical to me that a starting warband would not be very well equipped, and the henchmen in particular would largely be armed with daggers and maces. As the warband increases in riches, they are able to purchase improved weaponry.

Mordheim is, at its core, a game. Despite having amazing modeling and post-game development possibilities, when two or more warbands are set up to play a scenario, competition provides a large part of the enjoyment. Now by "competition" I don't necessarily mean victory. What I mean is a setting which rewards tactical play and gives every element of the game a fighting chance. If one warband routinely steamrolls the others, the game loses its fun.

Unfortunately since official support for Mordheim has been discontinued, the game is not properly balanced. Some warbands are innately weaker than others, and equipment (especially armor, poisons) is frequently priced unreasonably. Experienced players often develop house rules to balance the most pronounced issues, but for the average player new to the game looking to outfit a warband, these extra rules are excessively complicated. I believe it most helpful to guide the player to what is most effective in the official ruleset. This will hopefully allow him to compete with other, more experience players from the start, and as new equipment is experimented with, it can easily be compared to the "optimal equipment." Players are free to embrace Mordheim's fluff as much as they want to, but what scares me the most is a new player giving up on the game because it appears to lack balance and is impossible to win, even with the best tactics.

In an ideal world, (Mordheim would have a full team testing, reviewing, and balancing all elements of the game and) all equipment would be created equal. However, as that is not the case, I believe new players should be given the knowledge of what works best. Whether or not they chose to use it is their choice.
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Fri 17 Apr 2009 - 5:11

I like to give my Captain pistols, a sword and a club for starters (or, replace the pistols with a crossbow if it's a shooty warband). I like to kit each youngblood up for a different role (normally this means giving one a two-hander and another a bow). And the champs fit for combat and shooting.
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PostSubject: Re: Mercenary heros and kit......(particularly averlanders)   Today at 13:27

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