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Duredhel
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PostSubject: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 6:43

For the last game of the campaign, I wanted to introduce the Shadowlord as a DP. The last game would pit the Shadowlord, teamed with our possessed player vs the other 2 warbands (druchii and CoC). I remember reading some time ago that the shadowlord was actually Be'lakor, and I saw a thread (but can't remember on which forum) where they were providing stats for him. Would anyone be able to provide me with those stats?
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 9:11

You're right using Be'lakor. Here he is straight from the Storm of Chaos book (available temporarily, so grab him while he's here Smile ):


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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 9:45

Thanks a lot, Cianty.

Do you believe he can be used as such against a warband with about 20 battles of experience (obviously this is a rather difficult question to assess as there are many intangibles, but I am just looking for an opinion based on your previous experiences)?

Also the rules seem to be a bit different from Mordheim's? E.g. Does being a level 4 wizard imply anything?
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 10:07

That Level 4 Wizard implies how many dice the guy uses, I believe. For translation into Mordheim terms, This guy is tough, but not that tough. To compare, try putting this guy up side by side against the Monster Hunt scenarios. When your warbands can take out some Monster's with ease, then this should prove some challenge. If your warbands have trouble with the Monster Hunts, then this guy would possibly be unstopable.


But, I believe you said that this guy would be teamed with another warband. I think it would be safe to say that would be a good match, assuming that the warbands are somewhat evenly matched.
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 10:19

The info is from Warhammer Fantasy.

The warbands would have a chance against him as you should have many models that have S4 and S5.

It seems he has no armor or Ward Save.

2 or more warbands with 20+ games should be able to take him down, thus will some loss of life.

I would use the Terror rules for him even though Mordheim does not, it makes more sense.

Keep us posted as I think this is a great idea. Pancreasboy from Australia also did something like this.

Pitfightertrainer and myself actually ended a campaign with him taking on a 2K Vampire Army with Von Carstein and his pretty wife leading the way. Pitfighter won by using better tactics and sealed victory by driving a stake (Not from Outback Steak House) into his heart.
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 10:29

Da Bank wrote:
It seems he has no armor or Ward Save.

Doesn't his "daemonic" ability imply something like a 5+ save or so (not that that would be relevant when fighting S5 enemies)? I'd have to look up the 6th edition daemon rules...

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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 13:46

@Cianty. Could be but without the rules being listed there is no way for me to tell.
I don't have the 6th Edition rulebook or current Chaos/Demon Fantasy rulebooks.
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 14:02

Thanks for the input.

Yes, it would be the SL with our Possessed player vs the drows and the CoC players.

I think I will apply the same Daemonic rules as for nurglings in the CoC warband, i.e. 5+ save (negated by magic weapons and S (we house-ruled that save modifiers would only start at S5)), and immune to psychology or maybe the 4+save chaos armour from the rewards of the Shadowlord (seems to make sense).

I can't remember where the terror rules come from (TC?).

I'll give feedback, but it will be a couple of months before we get there (unless the players get bored), since we are only at round 5 (we try to play one round per week).
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 14:14

As presented in the Storm of Chaos, Belakor was part of the Demonic Legion, he had a ward save of 5+ which was not modified by magic or strength. The stronger ward save was because of the large influx of warp energy from the north which allowed the Demonic Legion to travel so far south in the first place. You could also argue that a huge warpstone meteor would be enough to creat a similar effect.

I might recommend clipping his wings, or at least giving him only a 12" flight range. His ability to fly 20" would give him a major advantage.
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 15:03

Well, actually Mordheim is based on 5th edition WHFB, where a daemon prince had better stats than that, including a 4+ ward save if memory serves me right, and it might seem more correct that the be'lakor is quite strong.

For game purposes I'd probably give him 10 wounds, so he wont go down from a few lucky hits.
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Mon 30 Mar 2009 - 17:25

Be'lakor as written is valued at 650 warhammer points. I remember da bank and PFT overcame (with some hired assistance) a 2000+ point army, and I don't believe thier bands had 20 games under their belts either. Through extrapolation of their experience, and general intuition, it seems Be'lakor (as written) would not provide an adequate fight. I do love the idea though, so I thought I'd offer ideas I had if I were playing it.

First of all, interpreting his rules into Mordheim:
Mark of Chaos Undivided: Reroll leadership tests
Whispers: the -1 leadership bit, and all all alone tests are additional -1
Night wards: spells affecting him fail on a 4+
Terror: Fear causing models still fear him. Other models fear him and add +1 to their fear tests against him
Demonic: immune to psych, magical attacks, 5+ unmodifyable save (ignored by magical)
Fly: In WHFB it's 24", which seems a bit much. 12" is too little though as that's what an ogre or skaven runs. I'd go with 18" flight or so, that's what an elvish steed or sprinting skaven would get (remember, it's not doubled for charge).
Level 4 wizard: Let him attempt 2 spells each of his turns.
Spells: It'll be a lot of work to fix these to fit Mordheim. Just to note: casting on a 12+ in WHFB is much different (easier) than casting a D12 spell in Mordheim.

I agree with Master. He needs more durability. I'd give him 10 wounds, or regeneration, or something else to add some significant longevity. I'd also up him to 6 strength, as 5 is quite common in Mordheim.

It'll be much harder to "balance" Be'lakor than a traditional melee hero, cause much of his strength lies in being a maximum level spellcaster within a much different magic system.

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

P.S. Your campaign is druchii, CoC, and possessed? That's one evil group you've got tongue
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PostSubject: Re: Stats for the shadowlord   Tue 31 Mar 2009 - 1:55

Thanks Identity. How difficult should the spells be to cast? Should he cast by rolling 4D6, as was suggested?I was thinking 3D6 would be fine...

Quote :
P.S. Your campaign is druchii, CoC, and possessed? That's one evil group you've got tongue

Don't tell me. Originally, the possessed player was supposed to play WH, but after one test game, he decided he didn't like the WH play style...
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