New guy starting Skaven warband, garlic?

Howdy all, I've posted once or twice before, and had one game with my friend who chose a blood dragon warband (not sure if it's official or not)

Anyway after totally messing up the rules, I went back and read over the rules again and again, and now I think I'm better prepared, but naturally I want some opinions of more experienced ratty leaders.

Here is my lineup.

Assassin Adept	60
Warplock brace	70
Eshin Sorcerer	45
Sling, Spear	12
Black Skaven	40
Fighting claws	35
Black Skaven	40
Flail	15
Sling	2
Night Runner	20
Sling	2
Club	3
Night Runner	20
Sling	2
Club	3
Verminkin x4	80
Sling	8
Spear	40
TOTAL	497
10 units
6 Heroes

Sorry if its a bit long, but I just cut and pasted from excel. Anyway I'm wondering about just a few things.

Firstly, is garlic worth the purchase? I've never heard anyone talk about it, and since Rob's leader is a vampire, it forces him to make a leadership test if he charges someone wearing it. It would only cost 10g to have everyone wear some garlic, and I could juggle about the changes so that would work.

2. If I have 10 rats, the leadership rout test will be after losing 2 rats, if i get 12 its 3, what if its 13? does it go up to 4? I do have alternate starting warbands but I'm not sure yet on how to play it depending on the rout test and everyones opinions.

Since his skeletal warriors can't run, my goal is to constantly move backwards as he attacks, firing off with the 8 slings, aiming for the skeletal warriors as they will most likely be knocked down and although it doesn't kill them, they will be so far behind the running vampire and the wights means he can't attack with all of his units at once (he has roughly 7 to 8 )

That means I'll most likely be facing a vampire and 1-2 wights, and they will clash with the 4 verminkin with spears first. The black skaven are right behind the spear-rat-men and the assassin has two warplock guns for essentially kulling anything within 8".

Anyway should I chuck the garlic on the rats with spears as they will be charged first? or just on heroes? or just drop a weapon so everyone can be wearing the lovely smelling garlic.

Oh and just before I go, although I have talked for a while, I'm quite confused about where to find the UPDATED mordheim rules, I have seen links for them all over the place but I'm not very good at navagating this site yet, could someone lend me a hand? I know there have been many changes to the official rules and I just want to update myself so Rob and I can talk them over and THEN start talking about adding additional rules from unnofficial rulebooks (some of which I really like guys).

So....your thoughts people?

Well, a couple of things, I suppose. First, since you've posted the gold totals, I'm assuming it is a starting warband. There is a sticky thread where those go.

However, the pdf files on the games workshop website are actually already officially corrected. Anything after that is a personal choice. By all means ask for advice on house rules.

The garlic, in my opinion, isn't really worth it. It only lasts one battle, and vamps have high leadership anyway. If you'd like, put it on someone that you REALLY don't want to be charged, but it is a luxury.

if you have ten rats, the break test is at 3. The easiest way to explain it is simply a quarter. you must lose at least a quarter of your rats before routing. So, while a quarter of ten is 2.5, losing two rats is not a quarter of your rats. Since it is impossible to lose half a rat, the only way to get at least a quarter casualties is to lose three.

Some notes on your warband while I'm at it. I personally would not recommend starting out with a brace of warplocks. Lose them, and pick up some extra verminkin or giant rats. Giant rats, btw, are crucial. They're highly expendable and extremely useful, and are actually pretty decent in a fight. If you do decide to keep the warplocks, might as well add a sling as well, for the extra range. Remember that a brace of pistols occupies only a single ranged weapon slot. (normally one may only have two ranged weapons) Also, I typically start out my verminkin with a pair of clubs to save some money and grab the extra attack, but I've always felt that weapons are a form of self-expression. Remember though, that as skaven it is relatively easy to establish the charge (or to avoid one) and as such, the 'strikes first' ability of the spear may be wasted.

And of course, welcome to the forum.

whoops, didn't know about the certain place I should have posted. I generally went for spears and slings as spears is really benefited by the high Initiative of the Skaven, and plus I just think a mass of spears and slings looks cool

Thanks for the help, I may get rid of the warplock pistols for the leader and give him two swords and a sling, and then spend the other 48g on another spearing slinging rat, or a few giant rats.

Slightly off topic, but henchmen can't use garlic (or other miscellaneous equipment). It can only be given to heroes.

Back on topic. I think dropping the expensive pistols to buy more henchmen would be a sound plan. Getting up to 13 models would certainly be a very good idea. With Skaven Leadership being so low, you want to delay having to take rout checks for as long as possible. You can always buy the pistols later if you really want them.

About Warplock Pistols - There isn't written anywhere that you can use them in HtH - and thats the main thing where I would want to have them - If you cant use them to get your Assassin to S5 - I wouldnt bother with it

I would suggest dropping the 4x spear for the henchmen - they're pretty expensive and if you quit those and the sling for your black skaven with flail (going into HtH anyways) you can afford 3x cannon fodder = giant rats.. they add up to the number and if you don't kill em they can really be a nuisance..

@Akuma - Warplock pistols are still a type of pistol so they should be able to be used in CC....I think. I just liked the perfect killer modifier of -1 on top of the -2 modifier for the pistols in CC which would be really nice against the undead I'll be facing.

@Goosetipher - Thanks for the info on the 25% rule, I wasn't too sure about rounding up or down on numbers.

@Catferret - Didn't realise henchmen couldn't use garlic, thanks for spotting that one.

Getting rid of the pistols though, I can have 6 verminkin with spears and slings and 6 heroes, so 12 I think is good enough for now, I could give the vermifodder slings and clubs and get some giant rats but since my opponent will be fighting with 7-8 characters I don't want to totally crush his hopes when he sees 12 rats AND some giant rats as well. Plus I've already painted a few rats with spears and I'm a lazy guy not wanting to start over, but if I lose repeatedly, you can expect swarms of giant rats and double clubbing verminkin.

Will post a battle report after my first game, which might be as far as two weeks away.

Fair enough! Do what you like. It is, after all, YOUR warband.

on the flip side... with just one giant rat, you won't rout test till five models bite it.

and hey, no problem. anytime. We all love to help people out.

one more question, it says that you can have no more than 6 heroes, if that is true, then how can your henchmen be able to get the "lads got talent" skill? Because when they become a hero they can only choose from two skill lists and all my heroes can choose from more than that, so it seems that if I lost my sorcerer, I would just buy another one instead of promoting a henchmen to fill his place, since he wouldn't be able to pick such a large range of skills.

Or am I so far off it's not funny?

You're right, because Skavens can have 6 heroes in the beginning of a campaign, but other warbands cannot !
Oh, and what happen if you loose your leader ? You can't get another one, so...