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Squirreli
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PostSubject: Blunderbuss   Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 8:29

During our last campaign, no-one used blunderbuss, so no problems there. This time around however it's going to be a different story, so heres me asking: "How does blunderbuss work? How have you interpreted it?"

"Shot: When your model fires the blunderbuss, draw a line 16" long and 1" wide in any direction from the firer (the line must be absolutely straight). Any and all models in its path are automatically hit by a Strength 3 hit." (Rulebook pg. 32)

A rules lawyer could make the case that this special rule supercedes most of shooting rules. Conceivably you could stand behind a high stone wall and shoot a hidden model 15" feet away, separated by yet few more stone walls.

My take on this is (and we are going to play Blunderbuss this way in our campaign unless something better comes up):
-You must place the template so that it touches at least one non-hidden enemy model that is visible to the shooter.
-The template is considered 1" high and is placed 3-dimensionally.
-The template can hit hidden models and through any obstacles.
-Normal "shooting into close combat" restrictions apply: Template cannot be placed so that it hits a close combat where your model is involved.

These rulings ensure that the shooter can be conceivably be shot in return and that the gun is targeted at a visible enemy while keeping much of the awesome one-shot power of the Blunderbuss intact. After all the walls in Mordheim are rotten and crumbling, they won't save you from the Blunderbuss. And if your mates next to you are making themselves targets, you just might get caught in the blast!

-Touko / Squirreli


Last edited by Squirreli on Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 8:31; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : removed some size tags that appeared due to a bug?)
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Asp
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 9:07

this is good.

exactly how we play it
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DeafNala
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 9:46

Hey Squirreli,
Check the bottom of page #3 in this section for an indepth discussion of the ubiquitous blunderbus. thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 9:59

On najmita.net most of us agreed with this rules:
-you MUST shoot to the closest model. Yes, in blunderbuss rules nowhere is mentioned that it cancel one of the basic rule of shooting. Long rifle has rule, it can shoot to any target, not the closest one, but blunder has not.
-cover don't stop shooting but solid objects without holes (rocks, walls, big monuments etc.) do.
-if, due to first rule, path of schrapnels lay on a fight, then everyone gets hit (even when fight is only partialy covered), because fighting is rather dynamic, everyone is running, jumping, crawling and so on,
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Squirreli
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 10:34

Kadzik wrote:
On najmita.net most of us agreed with this rules:
-you MUST shoot to the closest model. Yes, in blunderbuss rules nowhere is mentioned that it cancel one of the basic rule of shooting. Long rifle has rule, it can shoot to any target, not the closest one, but blunder has not.
-cover don't stop shooting but solid objects without holes (rocks, walls, big monuments etc.) do.
-if, due to first rule, path of schrapnels lay on a fight, then everyone gets hit (even when fight is only partialy covered), because fighting is rather dynamic, everyone is running, jumping, crawling and so on,

"Shot: When your model fires the blunderbuss, draw a line 16" long and 1" wide in any direction from the firer (the line must be absolutely straight). Any and all models in its path are automatically hit by a Strength 3 hit." (Rulebook pg. 32)

So I take your message to mean you have agreed to a house rule, and Blunderbuss sorely need a house rule until an official clarification becomes available. Your house rule seems rather reasonable and I could imagine playing with that one too. I might even suggest it as an alternative to the House Rule stated in my 1st message of the thread.

And: In case what you posted was an opinion of what the Rulebook is telling us about the Blunderbuss, here's some rules lawyering coming your way:

1) Shot-rule's "in any direction from the firer" seems to overrule shooting rules. It basically tells us "just do whatever you like" and doesn't restrict us. The wording on the rule can be perceived to mean that the Blunderbuss is wholly different from other missile weapons in the game. Thus I wouldn't
2) Your "cover don't stop shooting but solid objects without holes (rocks, walls, big monuments etc.) do" is not supported by the Shot-rule in anyway. Your ruling would seem to be a house rule (and a good one at that) but if we apply rules-as-written then I would interpret that "any and all models in its path are automatically hit" as stated in the Shot-rule.
3) Your ruling of everyone getting it is supported by the Shot-rule. The rule seems to break most shooting restrictions and rules and to me your interpretation on that is rules-as-written.

So, again, at least to me the Blunderbuss is in sore need of clarification and - until an official clarification is available - house ruling. Any and all points of view are welcome, please don't be scared of rules lawyering. Goes with miniature gaming Wink

-Touko / Squirreli
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Kadzik
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 11:36

Official Clarification?! We are waiting for one till 2002! Never ever will be another than Annual =)
First ok, but long riffle has it clrearly specified....
Second....problem is where this path ends. This metal schrapnels, pieces of glass, rocks and so on, are to small to penetrate even wooden doors, not to mention stone wall. IMHO cover doesn't matter, but solid objects stop blunder's line of fire
Third, I've never met this situation, so it is hypotetical =)

HR are ok but when you make national tournaments you need something more =)
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JAFisher44
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 13:51

Quote :
you MUST shoot to the closest model. Yes, in
blunderbuss rules nowhere is mentioned that it cancel one of the basic
rule of shooting. Long rifle has rule, it can shoot to any target, not
the closest one, but blunder has not.

Actually this is not true.

Quote :
Shot: When
your model fires the blunderbuss, draw a line 16" long and 1" wide in
any direction from the firer
(the line must be absolutely straight).
Any and all models in its path are automatically hit by a Strength 3
hit.

The rule specifically states in any direction. If you must fire at the closest target, you may not fire in any direction. I know that you guys were using house rules, but technically the raw on blunderbuss allows you to shoot at anyone.
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Fri 6 Mar 2009 - 15:50

[quote="JAFisher44"]
Quote :

The rule specifically states in any direction. If you must fire at the closest target, you may not fire in any direction. I know that you guys were using house rules, but technically the raw on blunderbuss allows you to shoot at anyone.

Yea it's like picking a direction, pulling the trigger. "spray 'n pray principal" lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 5:06

I'm a mathematic, and when I see rules for long rifle, where is MENTIONED it can shoot any target, and then take a look a blunder.......hmmm....something wrong! It sounds more like missed after beta rules when models could shoot only forward (propably)....For me it is not clearly stated, why it can ignore closest target.
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 16:11

I'm going to have to agree with Kadzik here. If the closest enemy is behind you, you have complete range to turn around and fire at that person, instead of being dictated by the 90 degree arch you get in some games.

Closest Threat: I can see your argument, but I think that it only applies if the shooter is 'threatened'. For example, a house rule of our group states that if the shooter and the target are separated by a hard-to-navigate barrier, (ex. a large river, a hard-to-cross gorge), and there is no immediate threat on the same side of the massive barrier, the shooter is treated as "shooting from an elevated position", as there are no models able to physically reach him the next few turns (without arcane help, via a flying spell or something.) Should help out, I'd say.
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Mon 9 Mar 2009 - 18:09

We play blunderbuss using these rules.
Without running a blunderbuss model can shoot in any direction.
Draw a 16" by 1" line. (1" thick if shooting up/down).
Any model hidden is not hit.
Any model covered more than 3/4 is not hit.
Any model using cover from another model doesnt count.
Hits enemy and friendly models.
Thats it. We have had no problems.
I shot one againt 3 Shadow warriors on the weekend and got 3 criticals. WOOT.
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PostSubject: Re: Blunderbuss   Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 1:16

well, i would put in as argument, that it's a special ballistic weapon, as it always hits! As long as the template 1"wide and 16" long is touching some models.

Here is the actual rulebook quotation.


SPECIAL RULES
Shot: When your model fires the blunderbuss, draw a
line 16" long and 1" wide in any direction from the firer
(the line must be absolutely straight). Any and all
models in its path are automatically hit by a
Strength 3 hit.


It clearly says any direction, not closest target. if it would have been so that you have to shoot closest target like normal shooting in our case it should have been sufficed to say this in the rulebook:


SPECIAL RULES
Shot: When your model fires the blunderbuss, draw a
line 16" long and 1".
(the line must be absolutely straight). Any and all
models in its path are automatically hit by a
Strength 3 hit.


thats my opinion.
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