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 Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!

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Emoge
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PostSubject: Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!   Fri 13 Feb 2009 - 12:05

So... I see "Da Mob Rulez" was taken off the "official" website... interesting.

Although I'm assuming it's still considered "official" and "balanced" regardless.

A question I have though is about the Nemesis Crown supplement. It seems it was used by Games Workshop, so... Was it actually produced by Specialist Games in the same way Lustria was, or is it entirely fanmade like BTB?

This leads me to a few warband questions...

First, the Black Orcs (and to a lesser degree the Forest Goblins). To me they look a little... strong, but then again they are black orcs so what do you expect. However, other than the strong heroes they basically seem like an Orc and Goblin warband made entirely out of orcs, thus having the detriment of not having access to some of the skills and reduced warband size...

Well, the question is, how do they stack up? Regardless of whether they were produced by specialist games or entirely fan made, has anyone played them or against them in a campaign? Were they overpowered, underpowered, relatively balanced (as balanced as official warbands can be considered a starting skaven warband can fire around 40 sling shots and shadow novices have the same cost as humies)

Secondly, the same thing for the BTB warband, Restless Dead. I've AlWAYS loved Liches, and if the warband isn't overpowered I would definitely love to get my hands on those rotting corpses ^_^

I always have more, but I'll keep my thoughts on balancing the Shadow Warriors (and opinions on how to OTHER than reducing models to Max 3... although 5 was a good idea...) to myself for the time being ^_^

As I said in the intro, great to be here, great to chat with y'all and I look forward to discussing games ^_^
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!   Fri 13 Feb 2009 - 12:43

First off, Lustria was NOT produced by Specialist Games. It was published in Town Cryer, yes. But it wasn't the stuio staff who designed it. There have been some alteration to the printed rules by the studio - not all to the better as you could recently read on the Mordheim yahoo group.

The Nemesis Crown supplement was comissioned by Andy Hall, chief of specialist games, and the authors include Ian Davis and famous Mark Havener (author of the Orcs, Dwarfs, Multiplayer rules, random happenings, ...) and more. So I despite it being a free download I wouldn't consider it fan-made. In fact it is the closest thing to an official Mordheim release in the last years.

About BTB.. well, what can I say? You won't find anyone more biased than me. This also means, however, that I can assure you that the Restless Dead (and the rest of this supplement) are fairly balanced. We've been playing with/against the warbands a lot, always mixing them with original (official) warbands. Don't let yourself be scarred from the "fanmade" label - if a rules set looks interesting and fun, just try it. Very Happy

Feel free to post more questions if you have any.

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PostSubject: Re: Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!   Fri 13 Feb 2009 - 16:41

I played the Black Orc list from the Nemesis Crown supplement in our last campaign in the local gaming store, and I can safely say that they are not overpowered. Perhaps it's just me and my ability to roll 1s every second roll, but in scenarios where seizing objectives/wyrdstone is a factor, my Black Orcs were terrible as I seemed to roll 1s for animosity every turn. This can really disrupt a plan, and if you're unlucky enough to have your henchmen turn on one of his buddies, it can do a lot more than just disrupt your plans! The effect this will have on your game depends, I suppose, on how many henchmen you run.
Anyway, on to the heroes. The most effective model in the game for me was my Black Orc Boss. He's a monster in combat - but that's the problem. To get the most out of the money you spend on him, you have to get him into combat, which means that eventually he's going to die. Which is exactly what happened. The Black Orc who took over leadership duties from him eventually suffered the same fate. Interestingly, the models that lived the longest were my two Shoota Boy henchmen, who eventually got promoted to heroes by rolling 'The Lad's Got Talent'. Bullseye, in particular, became a lethal hero - Crossbow, BS5, Quick Shot, Trick Shooter, Nimble, Eagle Eye. He was usually hitting on 2s, and was usually staying safely out of combat. He eventually became my leader after EVERY OTHER HERO died.
Of course, I'm famous for my bad luck, so maybe other people have had a different experience with them. To be honest, though, they were easily outperformed by the insanely strong Possessed warband run by one of our other players. Multi-wound, multi-attack models with 4 or more attacks of strength 5 or more, they were simply impossible to tangle with. Since most of them also had Sprint, it was very, very difficult to take them out with shooting before they were in charge range.
I'm playing Dwarves in our next campaign, and I'm looking forward to seeing how they do! Particularly since they are considered an 'Official' warband!
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Emoge
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PostSubject: Re: Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!   Fri 13 Feb 2009 - 17:35

Hawkeye, weren't you the one who had your Black Orc Boss die due to animosty though? Now THAT would be a bad animosity roll :p
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PostSubject: Re: Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!   Fri 13 Feb 2009 - 20:19

Yes, Emoge, that was me. Somebody on the forum was saying that Henchmen won't attack Heroes if they roll animosity, but in our group we thought - well, it's a crossbow, and he's thirty inches away, so why wouldn't he take a shot? He did, and he hit, wounded with a critical wound, and killed the boss stone dead. Hilariously, the guy with the crossbow who killed the Boss got promoted after that battle, and eventually, after all my other heroes died over the course of the campaign, he became the new boss!
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PostSubject: Re: Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!   Fri 13 Feb 2009 - 20:41

Black Orcs--The warband did not seem like not much thought was put into writing it. As I recall it it was the Mob Rulz without a Shaman and goblins. Shooty Black Orcs. I played close combat Black Orcs with one shooting hero, one of the the young 'uns or whatever they were called. The campaign I played in had Possessed and Undead as the other warbands.

I got lucky and dominated with T5 Black Orcs and their good friend the Troll. I can't say that we gave a good test of the warband because it was kind of an over the top campaign environment. I don't recall having that much trouble with animosity although my arra boyz would shoot each other every now and then... If you like mean close combat heroes its the way to go. Shooting Black Orcs is just the wrong way to play.
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Emoge
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PostSubject: Re: Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!   Fri 13 Feb 2009 - 21:23

Well yea, it seems to me just Da Mob, if you only want orcs, but less models. I mean, I suppose Da Mob would be better in the end since it could field 19 orcs plus a troll vs just 11 with troll.

However... the ability to have a Black Orc with it's legal heavy armor... that's just too much Very Happy

Personally the thing I like least about that list is the Shoota boyz... I mean c'mon... shootas in a black orc band! Just doesn't seem fluffy for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Nemesis Crown, Black Orcs, and Restless Dead Oh My!   Fri 13 Feb 2009 - 22:34

Well I may be wrong because I'm relying on my memory, but the thing that irked me was not the arra boyz or whatever they were called it was shooting skills for Black Orcs! I'm not a big fan of the shooty Orc warband, but shooty Black Orcs=wrong.
As it was I had the best shooting in the entire campaign, (even though the undead's Dregs had bows.) 2 arra boyz with crossbows and BS 4. My lone shooty orc hero kept getting St and A advances so he gave up his bow to bash things. Much better.
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