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 [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please

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jerk_burger
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PostSubject: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Sun 8 Feb 2009 - 8:31

Having started a 10 warband BTB campaign with maneaters I am wondering regarding the Gluttony rule, if I eat Hired Swords for whom I no longer wish to pay the upkeep for do I;

A) get an experience and have my size reduced for that exploration phase?
Or
B) do I get only my size reduced because that model is not captured?

(Also would a HS mount count as another model or as part of the HS?)

Also afterwards, an opponent has suggested, once I have eaten a HS I can no longer hire that HS because of my 'reputation'.

What are your opinions/views on these rules?

EDIT: Just wondering also am I able to eat Gnoblar Fighters in the same manner since they are regarded, for all intents and purposes as wardogs, and what do I get from eating them?
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Sun 8 Feb 2009 - 8:49

jerk_burger wrote:
Also afterwards, an opponent has suggested, once I have eaten a HS I can no longer hire that HS because of my 'reputation'.

I've had someone bring this up to me too. Otherwise, you can keep hiring halfling scouts for 10gc (you get +5 back for the reduced size) in exchange for +1 experience. It'd be pretty vicious for a player to do this every game. Maybe even forget the +1 exp rule, or make it after the first one is eaten, all HS require X1.5 hiring fee.
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cianty
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Sun 8 Feb 2009 - 9:24

jerk_burger wrote:
A) get an experience and have my size reduced for that exploration phase?

I'd say yes, because in the Cannibals rule it says "Ogres can choose to devour him when the contract ends (see Gluttony)".

jerk_burger wrote:
Also afterwards, an opponent has suggested, once I have eaten a HS I can no longer hire that HS because of my 'reputation'.

From a fluff perspective I don't think this is necessary... Ogres are known (feared!) for devouring everyone and everything - including fellow Ogres. An eaten Halfling or Ogre is nothing unusual and everyone working with/for them is well aware of it. Ogres are cannibals and therefore forbidding Maneaters to hire any Ogres doesn't seem very appropriate to me.

jerk_burger wrote:
EDIT: Just wondering also am I able to eat Gnoblar Fighters in the same manner since they are regarded, for all intents and purposes as wardogs, and what do I get from eating them?

The Gluttony rule says "Any member or animal from your warband can be eaten in the same way! ". I think this answers your question. However, as Styro stated, the combo with Halflings seems to be way better as you pay less (15 gs hire vs 15+D6) and you don't have to waste a Hero searching for a rare Gnoblar.

Now that Halfling combo does look good. While I don't think it makes the warband too powerful (as they still gain Experience at a slow rate and they need every gc to buy additonal warriors) it does seem like a no-brainer every Maneater player should be pulling and that's what's really bugging me. However, I don't have any experience with this warband and I'll wait for Stu to chime in.

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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Sun 8 Feb 2009 - 16:36

That's pretty much what I was thinking, Slow Witted pretty much makes eating halflings simply a valid strategy if you happen to have extra gold in an attempt to catch up advance-wise.
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Sun 8 Feb 2009 - 17:02

Um, while that may be a GOOD combo, that does not seem to be a FAIR strategy. Sure, the henchmen learning at half rate is a pain, but with the half rate with the heroes, I predict, is more than offseat by the fact that nearly every ogre is capable of taking out at least 1 opponent each game. Even if it wasn't, it seems there to offseat the simple fact that they are tougher than god.

So, the idea of not being able to rehire a HS seems fair. Start by eating cheap HSs (Halfling Scouts, Beggars, Lantern Bearers), but the more you eat, the more expensive they get, until you're forced to hire the more the costly ones.

Of course, I've never played them, so I think Stu's opinion is far more valid than my humble ranting.
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Sun 8 Feb 2009 - 17:19

having played a number games with the ogres before this I can confidently say that without armour ogres, especially youngbloods, are prone to being killed almost as quickly as your average human when consider they will always be outnumbered at least 2 to 1 from the get go.
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Sun 8 Feb 2009 - 18:40

Irrespective of wether the halfling-combo is overpowering the warband or not, I don't like it because it is a stupid no brainer that every player would do. It's not a strategy if it is just stupid to not do it. Suspect

Not having played with this warband I do trust your words, jerk_burger. That impression matches my own assumptions. However, as Stu's said many times before this is not an easy warband and you can make a lot of bad decisions when playing it. I don't know if buying Gnoblars to make up for the low number is a valid strategy or how exactly you play them at best.

Have I already said that I don't like Ogres? Never did never will. Evil or Very Mad Why am I even posting here...? Question

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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Mon 9 Feb 2009 - 13:48

Hi folks.

I was pleased to let this thread fan out a bit before weighing in with my own comments. As always, there is idle conjecture.

Quote :

having played a number games with the ogres before this I can confidently say that without armour ogres, especially youngbloods, are prone to being killed almost as quickly as your average human when consider they will always be outnumbered at least 2 to 1 from the get go.

Here we see jerk_berger dropped a solid point on the thread he started. Replacing models in the event of death or capture is a severe hindrance to Ogre lovers.

Quote :
I've had someone bring this up to me too. Otherwise, you can keep hiring halfling scouts for 10gc (you get +5 back for the reduced size) in exchange for +1 experience. It'd be pretty vicious for a player to do this every game. Maybe even forget the +1 exp rule, or make it after the first one is eaten, all HS require X1.5 hiring fee.

It it strange to me that no-one has considered how cost effective it is to purchase/hire warriors for the sake of simply devouring them! Perhaps anyone who has campaign experience with the Maneaters would care to comment.

This type of expenditure may or may not be frivolous spending. At the very least it could well be deemed luxury purchasing. Let's get the facts straight though first.

A Halfling Scout is hired at 15 gold crowns and converts into 0.5 xp when transferred to the dinner table. The Maneater warband participating in a lengthy campaign which I ran was in no position to afford Halfling buffets!

Quote :

Having started a 10 warband BTB campaign with maneaters I am wondering regarding the Gluttony rule, if I eat Hired Swords for whom I no longer wish to pay the upkeep for do I;

A) get an experience and have my size reduced for that exploration phase?

One xp scored, reduced to a half-point of course.

Quote :
Or
B) do I get only my size reduced because that model is not captured?

Devouring of captured models takes place in;

-phase 1 of the post battle sequence if the model was captured due to a serious injury result.
-phase 3 of the post battle sequence if the model was captured due to an exploration result.

According to the Mordheim rulebook the matter of 'Income' is resolved during phase 3 of the post battle sequence after the four stages of Exploration (phase 3) have been completed. Therefore any devoured models (including warriors from the warband and any hirelings) will have been consumed prior to determining how much income the warband has generated.

Any devoured models will have been removed from the warband roster. This can affect the combined model count of the warband in a couple of ways, prior to dishing out the bounty. It also indicates that hirelings can be consumed before their next paycheck is due*.

*From a fluff perspective...
Halfling Scout: Where is my cut you great oaf?
Ogre Captain: Here it is!
[ogre shows halfling the sharp end of his cleaver]

Quote :

Also would a HS mount count as another model or as part of the HS?

Points can be scored for eating any captured models and this includes animals. Upon the reasoning that a rider can dismount from his mount in Mordheim, this would provide a two-course meal. This is definitely one for the FAQ.

Cianty, there may be other FAQ-worthy content elsewhere here.

Quote :
Also afterwards, an opponent has suggested, once I have eaten a HS I can no longer hire that HS because of my 'reputation'.

Your opponent has just tried to blag you jerk_burger. Wink

Quote :

What are your opinions/views on these rules?

EDIT: Just wondering also am I able to eat Gnoblar Fighters in the same manner since they are regarded, for all intents and purposes as wardogs, and what do I get from eating them?

Treat these the same as any other models devoured.

Regards,

Stuart.
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Mon 9 Feb 2009 - 16:53

Brilliant, Much appreciated Werekin.

I see some halfling spit roasts in my near future.

One more thing I am curious about though, does this part of Gluttony stand true for HS aswell;
"can be devoured and his possessions retained" ?

Because while I see there being no balance issues with just eating a few halflings, being able to eat said halfling and keep his junk seems a little too good, especially once you take the Dog of War skill and can eat non-halfling HS's who have good equipment.

Cheers.
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Wed 11 Feb 2009 - 17:30

I noticed styrofoamking posted his distaste for the possibility of keeping devoured HS's gear, which I totally agree with, in the witch elf thread before it got deleted. But just to satisfy my curiosity if you could poke your nose in one last time to clarify Werekin, I would very much appreciate it.
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Wed 11 Feb 2009 - 20:27

jerk_burger wrote:
One more thing I am curious about though, does this part of Gluttony stand true for HS aswell;
"can be devoured and his possessions retained" ?
In the Q&A of Border Town burning they hired swords equipment is considered to be eaten at the same time as the hired sword.
This is actually what Ram Rock Ed First found unblanaced about the warband, but was obviously quieted about when the full BTB (and !&A) was released.

(Also, unlike hired swords, Dramatis Personae when eaten connot be rehired, cos they're one of a kind and well, now they're dead)
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Wed 11 Feb 2009 - 21:03

heh. I posted it in the wrong thread, so I deleted it myself. Given that I'm an unofficial person with no experience with Ogres, I thought I'd save my rebutal for when it was needed, rather than just saying it for the sake of making myself heard (I do like the sound of my own voice sometimes.) See? Fallen said it for me. Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Wed 11 Feb 2009 - 21:57

Good stuff, thanks I hadn't seen that in the Q&A.
I'm more than happy that I can now eat things and not have people cry fowl.
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PostSubject: Re: [BTB] Maneaters Gluttony clarification please   Thu 12 Feb 2009 - 13:03

This devouring business creates a noticeable exception to the usual captured rules. When a model becomes captured, it can be stripped of its belongings. When captives are devoured by Ogres, they fail to retain any of the kit in the process.

Quote :

In the Q&A of Border Town burning they hired swords equipment is considered to be eaten at the same time as the hired sword.
This is actually what Ram Rock Ed First found unblanaced about the warband, but was obviously quieted about when the full BTB (and !&A) was released.

Regards,

Werekin.
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