Question for Last Orders

In the Last Orders match, when you randomly choose a non-animal henchmen do you include Hired swords for example the TrollSlayer?

Sure, you do.

However, this makes it obvious that you probably shouldn't hire a Hired Sword right before a Last Orders scenario because even when the HS doesn't take part part in the battle, he will still want his upkeep after it! The same is true for Dramatis Personae, of course. On the other hand, you cannot always know when the Last Orders scenario is played, because it can be determined by a roll on the scenario table. That's just bad luck...

So the answer is "Yes, Hired Swords, Dramatis Personae and non-animal allies (like Orcs, Goblins, Gor, etc.) all count as warband members and can potentially take part in the battle".

Awesome, I play merchants so its likely that I have a Trollslayer or Pitfighter to give me boost in my combats during the campaign, and in case of Last orders this increases my chances of not getting the apprentice or merchant in a fight they lack so hitting power early on =P.

Yes, indeed. Determining the Merchant, Assistant and Wizard could mean auto-loss..

When choosing the members of your warband to participate in Last Orders, are centaurs an available choice?

Kerbicharred wrote:

When choosing the members of your warband to participate in Last Orders, are centaurs an available choice?

Since Centigors and Bull Centaurs are not explicitly forbidden (and they are no animals), there should be no problem with Centaurs.

About using Hired Swords: In the "henchman phase" you should randomly determine one model from all Henchmen and Hired Swords.

Don't know the rules for Centaurs or Bull Centaurs but the Centigor is specifically not allowed in buildings or ruins, so...

It's a very big so...
Currently the Bull Centaur is the best fighter in my warband, and if I can't bring him into the tavern it handicaps me.

Also, can trolls and ogres participate?

I think the easiest way to solve the problem is to just set a base size maximum?

Von Kurst wrote:

Don't know the rules for Centaurs or Bull Centaurs but the Centigor is specifically not allowed in buildings or ruins, so...

Is he? I guess he definately should be treated similar to horses, but I wasn't aware of an explicit ruling disallowing Centigors in buildings. If this is indeed the case, then Bull Centaurs and Centaurs aren't allowed either, of course. They obviously should be treated just as Centigors in these cases. Where is this stated, Von Kurst?

Kerbicharred wrote:

Also, can trolls and ogres participate?

I think the easiest way to solve the problem is to just set a base size maximum?

Ogres are allowed, of course (there is an Ogre event for this scenario). For Trolls... I guess they fall under the "animals" category (they don't gain experience). I can't see them doing anything useful in a tavern other than drooling and smashing the furniture so there's no reason to allow Trolls at all.

So as long as they (the miniature) can be justified as capable of doing something in a tavern they can be used?

Kerbicharred wrote:

So as long as they (the miniature) can be justified as capable of doing something in a tavern they can be used?

Yeah... you need to be sensible here. We tried to encourage the application of common sens by disallowing animals (but not warhounds). We could have made a list for what exactly is allowed and what is not but that would be a huge list so gaming groups should just try to find a consent whenever there is something not clear. In out games we never had any problems.

Trolls are specifically not classified as animals in their rulebook (as squigs are classified as animals on the same page), so I do not see why they would be included in the no-animal rule. Since zombies, wardogs, and ogres are allowed, I see no reason that trolls would not be. If you're trying to settle this issue through fluff, I would rationalize the trolls presence thus:

-He's eating. Trolls eat a lot. Maybe he's eating the leftovers off others' plates or the entrails of gutted fish the cook threw out.
-He's guarding. As wardogs are specifically allowed, it stands to reason that an orc might bring along his troll "just in case."
-He's there. The undead can participate in this scenario and their brainless minions come along, no doubt summoned when things got hairy. The troll could show up in much the same fashion, or he might be naturally drawn to the commotion.

I do not remember any ruling against centigors, bull centaurs, or centaurs entering buildings. That seems extremely silly, they are humanoid intelligence social creatures, I am sure they would stop in at an inn when traveling through with a warband. The only rule I remember which they shared with mounts was the "no climbing" rule.

Well, my questions are answered.

Thanks!

Identity wrote:

Trolls are specifically not classified as animals in their rulebook (as squigs are classified as animals on the same page), so I do not see why they would be included in the no-animal rule. Since zombies, wardogs, and ogres are allowed, I see no reason that trolls would not be.

You are right, Trolls are no animals. "Animal" is a game term that applies to warriors with that very special rule. The "animals" in the ruling of the scenario can be interpreted as not a mere game mechanic but to convery a certain idea of what is appropriate. I don't think there is a point in debating what is appropriate and what is not because this is entirely based on personal opinions. Also note that when playing the Last Orders scenario from the BTB setting you could be more liberal than when playing the original Last Orders scenario of the Nemesis Crown supplement, because those are two very different locations with a very different clientele.

Identity wrote:

-He's eating. Trolls eat a lot. Maybe he's eating the leftovers off others' plates or the entrails of gutted fish the cook threw out.

Sure, he's eating. But what is he eating? Stools and other customers? He sure won't sit there and pick something from the menu. Don't think they offer fried Goblins anyways. A troll is obviously not a customer for an inn - this is my whole point.

Identity wrote:

-He's guarding. As wardogs are specifically allowed, it stands to reason that an orc might bring along his troll "just in case."

Dunno.. Trolls are stupid and don't act like proper customers. There is no reason for the staff to let the troll enter all. It is obvious that he is only there to cause trouble. Weapons are not allowed in the Inn so trying to bring your thug buddy is more than dubious.

Identity wrote:

-He's there. The undead can participate in this scenario and their brainless minions come along, no doubt summoned when things got hairy. The troll could show up in much the same fashion, or he might be naturally drawn to the commotion.

I am not going to start speculating too much here and come up with weird and poor excuses for why zombies should be allowed. Maybe they shouldn't. Zombies normally aren't a great danger (like a massive salivating Troll) and depending on their "leprosy" some Zombies might be able to enter the Inn simply because the bouncer didn't realize that they were (un)dead and mistook them for some ugly humans.

Identity wrote:

I do not remember any ruling against centigors, bull centaurs, or centaurs entering buildings.

Same here.

Identity wrote:

That seems extremely silly, they are humanoid intelligence social creatures, I am sure they would stop in at an inn when traveling through with a warband. The only rule I remember which they shared with mounts was the "no climbing" rule.

While I do agree that horses should not be allowed to enter the (ruined!) buildings of basic mordheim (and that's the only ruling I can remember) I don't see anything wrong with intelligent creatures like Centigors, Bull Centaurs or Centaurs being disallowed to enter normal buildings. They won't have a problem with the ground, which was the idea behind the original rule. Sure, they might not be able to walk up most stairs but that's not the point.

TC#29 if its anywhere. I may have opened my mouth to insert my foot. Naturally now that I want 29 I can't find it...

Von Kurst wrote:

TC#29 if its anywhere. I may have opened my mouth to insert my foot. Naturally now that I want 29 I can't find it...

I just went through all of TC29 and did not see any mention that they are forbidden from entering buildings.

Mmunphmfd. (Foot stuck in mouth)

Never mind me. I'll just sit over here and be quiet.
js

I have another question about this scenario: is there an exploration phase and who can participate? We decided to rule out anyone who was NOT in the inn from exploring (and they got no XP either). But what about the guys left standing in the inn?

It doesn't say that there is no Exploration phase so the normal rules apply.

Of course, only those models taking part in the battle (and not taken out of action) should roll for Exploration, though. Similarily to models who miss games due to Serious Injuries only they can search for treasures and wyrdstones.

Okay thanks, that makes sense. We were in doubt coz it would seems a bit odd that your guys go exploring in an inn. And due to how this scenario works, there was only one hero left standing after the battle!

Since I was playing with Mithras (among others) and playing Dwarf treasurehunters, a question related to exploration: I had none heroes left standing at the end but do have the incomparable miners skill. Does that mean I still get one shard?

Mithras wrote:

Okay thanks, that makes sense. We were in doubt coz it would seems a bit odd that your guys go exploring in an inn. And due to how this scenario works, there was only one hero left standing after the battle!

Imagine the warriors to do the exploration in the dangerous area around the Inn, while on the way back to the camp where the rest of the warband members rests.

Splendor wrote:

Since I was playing with Mithras (among others) and playing Dwarf treasurehunters, a question related to exploration: I had none heroes left standing at the end but do have the incomparable miners skill. Does that mean I still get one shard?

Firstly, this has little to do with the original questions so let's leave this out of this thread . Secondly, check out this thread:
https://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/rules-and-gameplay-f1/dwarf-shard-t3368.htm