Witch Elves - Lustria Warband??

I was looking at my version of ArmyBuilder 2.2 ...and the most recent data file seems to have a Witch Elf warband, I can't seem to find any Original documentation for it.

Was this just a Beta version of the Dark Elf one that appeared in Lustria?

Could anyone shed some light on this?

Never seen it prior to this post, but looks like there's a version on Archive Pestilen. I found it with a google search.

It is more than likely from Archive Pestilen site. Unofficial.

Army Builder is not official as many warbands have been plugged in that are not quite right.

The ONLY information I could find on it are on this site.

http://hem.passagen.se/pestilen/mordheim/warbands/witchelves.htm

Looks like it is on Pestilen.

I like the idea of an all Female Dark Elf army. But his one seems a little overpowered doesn't it?

Yea, just a bit.

I just had a quick glance, but it seems completely unhinged... I mean, 5 heroes with WS5 and BS4... come on! One would be bad enough, but 5 is just crazy. If you like an all-female warband, you could get inspired by the names and use another Elf warband as template, just change the names and swap some special rules. Pretty much like it was suggested with the Wood Elves in another thread.

The Witch Elf warband showed up at our campaign about a week after a similar Wood Elf warband back in '02.


I suggested something else, I think he came back with the old halfling thieves....

Well, as for the BS 4, only 1 member of their entire warband may use any missile weapon except throwing knives, and none of them have access to shooting skills, so that's not gonna make TOO much of a difference.

Also, they have no access to Strength skills, and their equipment is pretty limited... they don't even have a double-handed weapon or flail, so their max S is always 4. This will be a big handicap when the start facing Possesed, Orcs, and Dwarves with resilient (admittedly, some of their special items are pretty nasty).

And with the five heroes with WS 5, that's not much different than the Shadow Elves, which many people think are balanced (the only hero of five without WS5 is the spellcaster- the Witch Elves have none).

At least on paper, this warband seems no stronger to me than Shadow Elves: perhaps weaker.

StyrofoamKing wrote:

the Shadow Elves, which many people think are balanced

I would object to this statement. A poll about warband balance was done on the SG forums before it went down. Of all the warbands (official and unofficial), the shadow warriors were voted the most powerful.

That being said, most of the shadow warriors' strength comes from cheap BS4 henchmen (in addition to the heroes) and ridiculous spells. So if the witch elves (i haven't looked at the list) are similar to the shadow warriors but lack the magic and the ranged attack, that's a good step towards balance.

I personally think the stats are a bit high, but when you think of Beastmen which for the most part are WS4, S4, T4 they dont seem sooo bad, but then again Beastmen dont have any ranged attacks which can make things tough.

These guys dont start with a caster, but there isn't any reason they couldn't hire which isn't hard to do. Beastmen on the other hand dont have that ability.

I think these guys could be balanced with some tweeks.

Any opinions?

After a cursory look, here are some possible tweaks:

Drop the attenders quantity to 0-2
Change bloodcrazed to +1 attacks on the charge (instead of first round of combat).
Crossbow pistols as hero-only items.
Limit the number of heroes taking the frenzy skill (probably to 2).

Identity: I agree with the nerfs, they sound good to me. I'd go so far as say that the Crossbow pistol is for Assassins and Pained with LGT only (doesn't seem to fit the Witch Elves).

If anyone is interested I have an email from Tommy 'Punk' Muller with the Cult of Khaine warband list, featuring the Witch Elves. This is essentially an outtake from Lustria - Cities of Gold.

I shall post if there is any interest.

As far as Elves go, I have no problem with them. As you can see from Border Town Burning, we advocated the use of Elf warbands in the 'motives' section of the PDF.

The best 'nerf' in my humble opinion, when using Shadow Warriors, is to apply a simple handicapping system to their experience points. It's a great way of taking the edge off the Heroes & Henchmen without ruining what is a lovely rules-set which captured the feel of the Elves perfectly.

The same handicap system can be adopted in campaign play to level the playing field if you have experienced veterans fighting it out with youngbloods.

@Golfers: who doesn't like to brag about what handicap they play off?

Regards,

Stuart.

werekin wrote:

The best 'nerf' in my humble opinion, when using Shadow Warriors, is to apply a simple handicapping system to their experience points. It's a great way of taking the edge off the Heroes & Henchmen without ruining what is a lovely rules-set which captured the feel of the Elves perfectly.

In my unworthy opinion what work best would be the slow-witted rule of Ogres: Each earned XP simply counts as a half XP. I think this stops them sufficiently without making them "immune to advancing".

Of course Elves aren't dumb like Ogres so the reasoning would be that they (even the Henchmen) are already older and more experienced than comparable other beings (read humans) so they don't learn so many new things in the streets of Mordheim. That's perfectly reasonable.

Well, while not as balanced as Dwarf henchmen (were the default warriors cost 40gc), I don't think a cap that big is necessary. The biggest unbalance with Shadow Warrior henchmen was their inborn ability to become ungodly snipers (bs 4, init 5). The Witch Elves have equally even HIGHER Initiative, (which should possibly be dropped,) but other than striking first in combat, they only good it'll do is the occasional diving charge. Maybe raise the price to 40gc, and leave the exp as is.

If you DO have them 'learn half,' maybe call it "Inflexibility". Implies they are set in their ways, and not prone to change.

The other nerf I've seen for them is having them start at Exp 2, meaning they miss their first upgrade, and are slower to build up power/TLGT than other henchmen groups.

werekin wrote:

If anyone is interested I have an email from Tommy 'Punk' Muller with the Cult of Khaine warband list, featuring the Witch Elves. This is essentially an outtake from Lustria - Cities of Gold.

I shall post if there is any interest.
.

I would like to have a look it ^^

Quote :

I would like to have a look it ^^

Of course you would, but you're a witch hunter.

Regards,

Werekin.

werekin wrote:

Quote :

I would like to have a look it ^^

Of course you would, but you're a witch hunter.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer!