HomeFAQSearchRegisterUsergroupsBlogLog inGolden Tom 2014 Thread!

Share | 
 

 Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)

View previous topic View next topic Go down 
Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
AuthorMessage
StyrofoamKing
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1354
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-02-16
Age : 32
Location : Chantilly, DC

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Pirates (Unofficial) Pirates (Unofficial)
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 14 Apr 2009 - 15:14

Well, do the same thing the Dark Elves did with the Poison Master: The hero may grow 1D3-1 doses of Madcap Mushroom for the next game. If not used next game, they are discarded, and may not be sold.

Simple, really. You may decide that 1D3 is more fitting, rather than getting 0-2.

Another idea is the 'Norlander Nets' I proposed in Sartosa. They're the exact same as normal nets, but cost 10gc, and may be used once each game. Seems to work, if you're promoting a Netter hero.

Another thing, if I recall, one of the Devil's Den's contests resulted in a Squig Prodder weapon. I think it was a two-person weapon, that gain +1S & first strike, but the second person couldn't attack or something. I forget. I think it had an effect on Squigs too, like let you reroll their 2D6 movement. I think Identity might have a copy, he was far more diligent than I was.

Or, if I were to write a Prodder, I'd make a Spear that lets you 'apply the spurs', the same as the Squig Hopper Hired Sword. This means you can have any Squig within 6" charge/run 3D6 instead of 2D6, but any roll of doubles or triples has them run wild. Just a thought. It'd either be two-handed and cost 10-15gc, or grant +1 S & first strike, and cost 20-25gc.

Troll: I say keep him. Who cares if he is more likely to go stupid and droll? That's why you play goblins, 'cause anything can happen! Besides, the leader is only 1 Ld less than an Orc Boss at start up.
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/
hero
Elder
Elder


Posts : 310
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-05

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 15 Apr 2009 - 17:18

I dig the Shroom Master skill idea. Would it be shaman only (or maybe he'd get it by default?) or could any hero get it?

Why don't you give bosses 3 WS or 4 I or something? They're the same as henchmen as it stands, except they cost more.

And what about adding something to the Fanatic special rule Loony like "other goblins know better than to mess with these maniacs and will not charge them as the result of a failed animosity test."

Also you took away the fanatic's "always strikes first" rule which really made taking a two-handed weapon appealing No
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 16 Apr 2009 - 19:02

Hey Hero, thanks for the thoughts:

I did take away the Fanatic's strike first, because i did not think that his cost justified such a powerful ability. To make up for it I allowed him to gain exp. as a henchman, but he must re-roll "lad's got talent".

I like the loony idea, i might add that and state that he is too loony to be effected by animosity himself. The ball and chain states that the wielder is immune to animosity but i must make provisions for the other weapon options as well.

Bosses work exactly like they do in the forest goblin list... i didn't want to stray to far from what has been approved for gaming by the masses. They cost 5 more points because they have access to better equipment and can gain skill which gives them huge potential. Compared to other warbands, i can see how they might be underpowered though., which doesn't bother me, i'm not expecting them to go toe to toe and destroy Beastmen heroes or anything!

See below for mushroom skill, i limited it's potential to make the warband rich with some advice...

Styrofoamking:
I'm not familiar with Norlander Nets, I'll have to read up on Sartosa. I did kick around a "Superior Night Goblin Net" but never solidified any ideas.

Well the Squig Prodder already has rules, why would i want to use an alternative set? I know older models depict two goblins holding the weapon but the currently available ones work as a team one with the prodder the other with a noise maker... wait a minute... new item idea! Squig Pipes/Noisy Bashers.

I thought about making the mushrooms have an expiration date of one game to cut down on the power of the skill, but discarded it for some unknown reason... Modeling it off Dark Elves is a great idea. I'm all about borrowing rules that already have a precident in the game rather than making them up with no way to tell if they are balanced.

Here are two new versions of the Mushroom skill:

Fungus Farmer version 1
The industrious git has his own little mushroom farm back in the cave. After each game roll a dice: on a 1-2 nothing is ready. On q 3-4 a batch of mushrooms is ready to eat and the warband counts as one column smaller on the income chart this post game sequence (multiple results from several heroes will not stack). On a 5 a Mad Cap Mushroom is ready and on a 6 a Death Cap Mushroom is ready, which acts as Black Lotus. These mushrooms are a secret Night Goblin crop; they may not be sold and will spoil after the next game if unused.

Fungus Farmer version 2
The industrious git has his own little mushroom farm back in the cave. If the hero does does not search for rare items, he may pick D3-1 Mushrooms (this can be zero). Randomly determine whether each is a Mad Cap or Death Cap (treated as Black Lotus). These mushrooms are a secret Night Goblin crop; they may not be sold and will spoil after the next game if unused.

Which do you guys like best? I think they are both equally valid, the first allows rare item searching and may reduce cost of living, the second works just like the poison master skill.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
hero
Elder
Elder


Posts : 310
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-05

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Fri 17 Apr 2009 - 3:06

Personally I think it should always be madcap, keep it simple. Might want to limit how many members of the warband can take the skill, too!

Isn't there a night goblin hero in WFB with a squid prodder that counts as a halberd?

And can I get a link to this Sartosa thing?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
StyrofoamKing
Etheral
Etheral


Posts : 1354
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-02-16
Age : 32
Location : Chantilly, DC

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Pirates (Unofficial) Pirates (Unofficial)
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Fri 17 Apr 2009 - 8:51

Fungus Farmer #1: Not that great a skill. The best reason to have a fungus skill is that it can help feed the Fanatics. With your current version, it only gets you a madcap 1/6th of the time, gives you nothing 1/3rd of the time, and gives you a 5gc discount 1/3rd of the time. Maybe if the smaller warband was 1-2, 1 Madcap on 3-5, and Black Lotus on 6, it might be worth taking.

Farmer #2: I happen to agree with Hero that 'Madcap' alone makes sense with the Night Goblin style. Of course, the randomly determining for 'each' mushroom means that there's an even chance. Or, let the goblin choose which mushroom he wants to grow (maybe make it a a bonus: "if your shaman takes the skill, he may choose to grow Death Cap instead.)

Sartosa: http://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/

Again, the norlander nets, as i call them, work the exact same as normal nets, except they can be used once per game instead of one use only. Cost 10gc.
Back to top Go down
View user profile https://sites.google.com/site/styroheim/
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 16:46

I have been play testing the current format of the warband (0.3). A small campaign has been started to see how well they progress against others. Unfortunately the other warbands are fairly strong contenders, Dwarven Treasure Hunters and Lizardmen.

First game: Occupy turned brawl when we ignored the scenario after a few turns. Vs. Dwarves and Lizardmen. Result, first to rout, loss.

I was wedged between the two and forced to flee. This is the first time i have played a campaign with so much shootyness. My warband started with the 6 heroes armed with a mix of clubs swords and all with short bows. The rest were goblins with short bows, a couple with spear/shield, and a couple of squigs.

Second game: Street Brawl vs. Dwarves and Lizardmen. Result: 2nd to rout, loss.

This time i set up well away from the enemies and secured a building towards the center to shoot from. The Dwarves routed early after a few quick casualties. There was an extensive shooting battle between the lizards and me for several turns with no real gain. I sent up a strike force which was decimated by the saurus. I routed after that before they could reach my heroes.

Third game: Occupy vs. Lizardmen. Draw, 1 building each and one contested.

The Skink heroes stuck to the river and picked off half my heroes with shooting due to bad troop placement and narrow alleys. The three objective buildings (two houses one tower) were clustered in the middle with 3" between each and walkways connecting them.

Since my 4 Squigs could not climb i took most of my force up the tower which we assumed had stairs inside. One lucky shot from a Night Goblin Henchman took out the powerful Saurus Hero and my goblins managed to defeat the rest in the melee atop the tower. The rest of my force fell on the right flank to the Skink heroes (both of which were albinos!!) trying to take another building, which ended up contested...barely.

The third objective was held by the Lizard priest. After defeating the scary Saurus' on the tower i had two options in the 8th and final turn. I could shoot at the Priest 3 times or attempt to jump the gap to contest the building. Either option would have given me the win if successful, and after considering the chances i choose to send 3 Night Goblin henchmen and 3 Squigs across the gap... all of which failed their jump tests and fell 6".


Things i have learned:

Saurus are scary! 2+ saves in Mordheim are not fun (we use the shield buff houserule). Also the bite attack allows for a single Saurus to stun and then take out the same model in a single close combat round. I'm not so sure models should be allowed to do such a thing!

Bosspoles are vital for keeping your warband from killing each other before you can even get into position. We ruled that goblins had to have LOS to be able to ignore animosity.

So far post game gold has been used to replace losses. I am betting to the point where i can hire a fanatic but the rules as written make him cost prohibitive. I have not yet taken any Goblin skills, which need playtesting. Snotlings and trolls need to be bought as well, but if i keep loosing like this i doubt ill ever afford anything!

One question came up during the last game. My Big Boss is equipped with a sword, bosspole (counts as a spear) Short Bow, and Shield. In the first round of combat he must choose, and use for the remainder of said encounter, either sword and shield, sword and dagger, or bosspole and shield...correct? My opponent seems to think i can never wield the sword because the bosspole takes up both hands (which it doesn't it just precludes the use of a sword at the same time). i know he is wrong but can't prove it in the rules!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
Identity
Elder
Elder


Posts : 368
Trading Reputation : -2
Join date : 2009-01-14
Location : California

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Lizardmen (Unofficial) Lizardmen (Unofficial)
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 26 Apr 2009 - 22:54

Well I'm glad to hear you're testing out these guys in battle. I must say as a lizardmen player that the warband is rather strong, but they certainly can be beaten. Also, your opponent isn't using the proper rules as detailed below. Try to go after the skinks, with T2 they die to anything. The saurus are tough, but your cheap squigs should be able to hit them pretty hard. For the 2+ AS one you'll need a crit, spells, or a troll though.

I don't think you can properly test the goblins without fielding a troll. They're just such an incredibly good deal, especially with their immunity to death. They also compensate perfectly the weaknesses of the goblins.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
Saurus are scary! 2+ saves in Mordheim are not fun (we use the shield buff houserule). Also the bite attack allows for a single Saurus to stun and then take out the same model in a single close combat round. I'm not so sure models should be allowed to do such a thing!
A couple things to mention about this. It specifically states in the lizardmen warband that light armor costs 50 gold no matter where it is purchased from and no matter what setting you are in (I justify this in the Mordheim setting because armor fitting a saurus would be extra special and rare). You may want to make sure the lizzy player is using the higher prices, cause 50 gold armor this early in a campaign is a hefty price.

The bite attack DOES NOT allow the same model to stun and then OOA an opponent. That's a misinterpretation of the rules. It's quite explicit as written, "Note that a model with multiple attacks may not stun/knock down and then automatically take a warrior out of action during the same hand-to-hand combat phase. The only way you can achieve this is to have more than one of your models attacking the same enemy." The bite attack will still be able to hit, wound and cause an injury roll for an opposing model, but it cannot benefit from the rules of a model who is knocked down or stunned in combat (unless the model began the combat in that state). A similar thing to the bite can occur when a model dual wields an ithilmar weapon and a non-ithilmar weapon. He basically can attack in 2 phases, but that does not mean the latter attack will benefit from a stun or knock down from the previous attack.

Pathfinder Dubstyles wrote:
One question came up during the last game. My Big Boss is equipped with a sword, bosspole (counts as a spear) Short Bow, and Shield. In the first round of combat he must choose, and use for the remainder of said encounter, either sword and shield, sword and dagger, or bosspole and shield...correct? My opponent seems to think i can never wield the sword because the bosspole takes up both hands (which it doesn't it just precludes the use of a sword at the same time). i know he is wrong but can't prove it in the rules!
Yes, you are correct. A model is limited to a maximum of 2 melee weapons in addition to his free dagger. At the beginning of each combat, that model may nominate which weapons to use, with a maximum use of 2 hands (unless he has more). The spear uses one hand and the shield another. You're not required to find a rule to prove your case; he's required to provide a rule to support his (quite ridiculous) case. He's claiming that a model which has a spear is not allowed to use any other weapons in combat ever, and if he wishes to continue playing as such, he needs to provide a rule which states this. If your opponent plays WHFB at all, point him to models which have a hand weapon, shield and GW/halberd. It's the same situation; they get to choose what to use.

Edit: If you need to prove that it's a one-handed weapon, the ruling for the spear is as follows (Rules Review): “Unwieldy: A warrior with a spear may only use a shield or a buckler in his other hand. He may not use a second weapon.” Also, according to your opponent's logic, a model with a crossbow could not use a sword in close combat, cause the crossbow requires 2 hands.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 29 Apr 2009 - 12:02

Only the hero has heavy armor (edit, light armor), the rest have 3+ saves from shield and scales. I knew there was something fishy about the bite attack, there it is, the first sentence under attacking stunned and knocked down warriors.

I'm going to test out how the fanatic works with the version 2 fungus farmer skill. I should be able to be a few games in tomorrow.

I feel silly trying to create a warband while not having a firm grasp on the rules, which i though i did. My interpretations are usually correct, i just lack the effort to prove them!


Last edited by Pathfinder Dubstyles on Wed 6 May 2009 - 10:24; edited 1 time in total
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
Asp
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 659
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-01-03

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Marienburgers Marienburgers
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 30 Apr 2009 - 4:19

i think with the cauldrons that NG shamans carry about you're beggin for a 2D6 fungus brew chart
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.indadvendt.dk/mordheim/
Figgy
Elder
Elder


Posts : 365
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-05-04
Age : 28

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Mon 4 May 2009 - 8:52

Alright Dubstyles, you have forced my hand in making an account here! Your making me look silly! I cannot have this!

Once you clarified that the bosspole worked as a spear I was fine with it! That was a three second argument! Razz

As far as the bite goes, I was wrong, and we have played with that fixed.

And the armor? Yeah, I paid the whopping 50 gold for it. Was worth it too, been rolling twos on my armor save in the past few games. It's the reason I still only have 8 members of the warband...I need to quit decking them out and get more saurus and skinks. (And remember, it's not heavy armor, but leather.)

On another note, the on topic note (sorry I get off topic), you should mention the idea you had for a squig herder hero. You and I both came up with some cool tricks for him. I agree that he would add alot of flavor to the rather bland hero selection you have as well.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Mon 4 May 2009 - 21:05

Ah there is Figgy, my Lizardmen opponent! Welcome home!

He's always a good sport when i call him out on things so there is no hard feelings, just in case anyone was interpreting that as anything other than good natured ribbing! He calls me out on quite a few things as well, usually less ambiguous and downright blatant things like clubs can;t parry, and I can;t run and shoot!!

Now, the Squigherd, yes...

I wanted to spice up the hero selection a little bit, 1 Big Boss, 0-4 Bosses and 0-1 Shaman is bland bland bland! I want to drop the bosses to 0-3 and include a unique hero, 0-1 Squigherd (or is it Squig Herd?, or Squig Herder?)!

This is all of 10 minutes of bouncing ideas off each other inspired by warhammer online.

He would basically be a boss, without animosity costin maybe about 30 points. His special rules would be something like this(a little wordy now, needs editing, sorry):

Pet: When you recruit a Squig Herder you may select any Squig in your warband to be his personal Squig. This pet will be in a separate group from any other Squigs and may gain experience as if it were not an animal in the same way as most henchmen with a bit of intelligence. If you do not have a squig in your warband when you recruit the Herder, you may wait until the point at which you do to select the pet. If the pet dies, you may buy a new squig to be his pet. The pet squig does count towards the maximum number of squigs you may own.

Obedient: The pet squig will never run wild, if he ends up outside the herder's control it will simply move as fast as possible to get in control range. If the Herder is take out of action the squig will be removed from the table, but will protect the goblin. Any captured results count as full recovery.

Train: When the pet gains an advance roll 1D6 on the Squig advance table:

1: +1 WS
2: +1 Initiative
3: Stomach Acidz:The squigs attacks now gain an additional -1 save modifier, and +1 to injury rolls.
4: Bouncy- the squig may make a single large bounce during its normal movement. The squig may use either movement die, but only one, as a horizontal leap or vertical jump (even straight up!). It may also re-roll initiative tests for leaping and jumping (note: makes up for the fact they cant climb ladders)
5: Toof 'n' Claw: The squig is trained to be even more vicious in its attacks. It gains a bite attack, just like a saurus.
6: Gassy: The squig is being fed a blend of rotten fungus and sharp pebbles to act as shrapnel! When the squig is taken out of action, you must roll the dice to see if it survives immediately instead of after the game. If it dies it explodes, hitting all models in 2" with a strength 3 hit. Remember the squig is now DEAD!

Overall, it seems a little powerful at the moment, you can only ever have one and when it dies you start over. Hopefully that should balance things out...

Thoughts or concerns?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
Figgy
Elder
Elder


Posts : 365
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-05-04
Age : 28

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 6 May 2009 - 0:04

These were the original suggestions I made to Dubstyles.

Bad Gas - The Squig Herder's
squig explodes, dealing a strength 3 hit to all models (except the
squig herder - he's the one that fed him the bad shrooms!) within 1
inch. The squig is dead, and a new one must be trained from 0
experience.

Big Bouncin' - The Squig Herder's Squig leaps
farther and faster than other squigs. He adds another d6 to his
movement. He may also jump up to 5 inches, and reroll initiative tests
when doing so.

Belly Acidz - The squig's attack grants an extra -1 armor save. This also increases the range of bad gas to 2 inches.

Toof an' Claw - The squig is trained in using his Claws as well as his teeth
in combat. He may make another attack at -1 str, this attack does not
benefit from Belly Acidz.

Alot of these were inspired by WAR.

Help Dubstyles and I pick the best blend! albino
Back to top Go down
View user profile
DeafNala
Honour Guard
Honour Guard


Posts : 17909
Trading Reputation : 8
Join date : 2008-04-03
Age : 69
Location : Horseshoe Bay, TX, USA

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 6 May 2009 - 3:13

YET ANOTHER strange idea flashed through my mind. How about a Squig Hopper Squig Herder [a Squig Hopper with Cowboy hat & chaps, maybe a lasso Suspect ]. AND a Stampede Rule: the Squigs make a random [group] move & stomp [XSX hits on folks/thingys] flat friends & foes they pass over...no, huh?! Suspect
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Figgy
Elder
Elder


Posts : 365
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-05-04
Age : 28

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 6 May 2009 - 7:01

That would be an interesting feature for the squig herder..

Perhaps he could, instead of having a dedicated squig, be able to control the squigs at once, being a true herder.

But that would be a bit difficult to implement. Some more thought is required! Good idea! Dubstyles and I will be talking over the squig herder idea alot today for sure, i'll bring this up.

So new question - Should the squig herder have a dedicated squig, like in WAR(warhammer online), or should he have smaller bonuses and more control over more than one squig, actually herding them.

Even if he keeps the dedicated squig, I just thought up a new rule for him. In the orcs & goblins rules it states that one gobbo needs to be in range of a squig at all times. Matter of fact, the goblin cannot conrol more than one squig. If that is the same case with Dubstyles list, we could make the squig herder capable of controlling all squigs on the table, as long as he has his squig prodder.

Dubstyles (with my proffesional inp-.....well input at any rate) is making a mighty fine balanced warband - So far the testing has gone well, matter of fact it seems a tad under powered. I think the squig herder will add more flavor, and keep the goblins very balanced!

More input is appreciated! thanks DeafNala!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Earthcrosser599
Hero
Hero


Posts : 26
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-24

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Fri 8 May 2009 - 13:51

I've been using your Night Goblin rules for the past 4 or 5 games I've played and I'm loving them. I can't melee my way out of a wet paper bag, but I have enough guys running around with short bows to put up a decent fight.

I got the troll last session but he never was able to get into combat as he always failed his Stupidity check, even with my leader standing right next to him. Between the upkeep cost and stupidity I'm going to drop him after the next game if he doesn't pull his weight.

I haven't tried the fanatic yet, but I'm skeptical because I already get very little gold because of how big my warband is, and having a 15 gold drain on something that looks very random isn't appealing.

Also, it says that I'm allowed to take Warlocks, but it doesn't mention the Witch. She seems to me to be basically a Warlock with a different spell list, and her joining restrictions are the same as the Warlock. Any chance she'll be added to the list of Hired Swords that I can take?
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Fri 8 May 2009 - 17:22

My LGS recently closed down, damn this economy, so it will be hard to play test. I will continue working in my spare time on Night Goblins and maybe even proxy terrain for play testing, Shocked

Actually I copied the hired sword allowances from Orc and Goblins (da mob rules), so anything they can hire (seeing as how the majority of the hirelings were introduced after that warband) should be allowed.

@ Earthcrosser: When using hired sword you should generally look at the who may hire section in the individual character. Orcs and gobbos are a special case because they are so belligerent, but i would allow witches to work with Night Goblins, they dress alike don't they? Wink

Please do let me know what other issues you run into run into while using this warband Earthcrosser. I would especially like to know how well the goblin shooting and close combat skills interact in gameplay. Anyone who helps me play test, and documents results, will get mention in the credits of the final version!

I Have had the same experience with trolls as well, but it's almost as bad for Orcs so don't feel bad! Fanatics should be imho, the backbone of this warband. In the next version look forward to Fungus Farmer skills, and the Squig Herd.

@ deafnala: i have been mulling over how to include squig hopper, be it with a hired sword (already generously provided by styro) squig herder skill, special mount, or simply a "counts as" wolf.

I have more playtesting to talk about and some blurry cell-phone pics of unpainted models, rejoice! I need to find the time to post them...
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
Earthcrosser599
Hero
Hero


Posts : 26
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-24

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Fri 8 May 2009 - 19:41

I'll keep you posted on all my experiences, PD. I typically play at least one game a week, and if things go according to plan, I'll have played 5 times this week. I work at our LGS so my bosses don't have a problem with gaming while I work.

The reason I was unsure about the Witch is because the Night Goblin document names three specific Hired Swords they can use, and the Witch was not on it. If the individual Hired Sword entry specifically contradicts this I wouldn't question it, but I figure specific rules override general rules.

The shooting thus far is good. It appears to be subpar compared to Skaven slingfire, but it works. It typically takes me 6-7 goblins to take someone out of action per turn, but with 17 guys firing it adds up quickly.

Close combat has unconditionally resulted in the goblins being defeated. I tried to give them weapons for it before I realized there was really no point in giving them anything other than their default dagger. The bosses have Boss Poles but they avoid combat like the plague.

If I sell the troll I'll try out the fanatic.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 9 May 2009 - 19:54

OK, My and Figgy played a few more play tests last week before the LGS closed down Sad

First we made new warbands, an elite Possessed warband, one actual possessed model, all mutations were extra arms. The only henchman was a beastman. I made a warband with a full complement of 6 Night Goblin heroes, along with a troll and a fanatic. 5 models vs. 8, the smallest and most drastically one sided fight ever!!

Mini campaign
I left the troll out of leadership range and he never got to attack, as the whole Possessed warband descended on him. After 4 rounds of combat it went down, and not only did my fanatic roll snake eyes for is first movement (he was only 4" away!) but he then proceeded to choke himself to death (died after game) on the next turn before even getting into combat! My counter charge was decimated by a single Word of Pain spell... ouch! the possessed suffered not a single casualty.

I remade an identical warband after losing a hero and fanatic and allowed the possessed to level up before the next game... which went better. The troll managed to survive and took out a mutant. If memory serves me i lost the next game as well.

Third game is a complete blank, Figgy any recollection? We kept these new warbands for future play tests. I learned that the troll and fanatic together are way too unreliable without a core of goblins and squigs. I suggest for those starting out not to take both like i did!

Older warbands
Moving along to the main warbands, lizards vs. goblins again, the scenario was the defend the center building one, forget the name. Apologies for the blurry cellphone pics.

the battle was joined as my squigs and newly bought snotlings held up the saurus hero Gree'Gree and his henchmen in a narrow alley. I was pleased to see the 5 snots and a squig tie them up he whole game!


The rest of the warbands got peppered by skink bow fire from the tower in the center as they tried to reach them.


The priest finally reached the battle, Figgy wanted me to stress that he is not finished painting this model!


My bosspole bearer went down and i left a spearmen behind to defend him as a lone snotling held off the saurus' for another combat phase...


I eventually made it to the tower and battled one more saurus on a walkway while a lone hero climbed the ladder to contest the game in the last turn. It seems all our games come down to one final movement phase which ties it up at the end!
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
Earthcrosser599
Hero
Hero


Posts : 26
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-24

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 9 May 2009 - 22:34

I'll try to get some pictures up of my games.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Figgy
Elder
Elder


Posts : 365
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-05-04
Age : 28

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Mon 11 May 2009 - 8:36

Hah! That was a fun game! I got lucky with my skinks, since you DID tie up my big guys the whole game with squigs and snotlings. I am still proud of them though, you never managed to wound them! Surprised

That last Saurus on the walkway actually got knocked down, and MADE his initiative (his init is 1) to keep from falling down. I thought he was gone for sure.

I think you took two skinks out, and I think one of them died too. But I also got a hero out of that game.

As far as the possessed vs. goblins test games, I rocked you the first two, then you murdered me on the last one. That troll took out lots of my mutants, and you got lucky with a few bow shots. I still took out my fair share of goblins, but that doesn't matter when gobbos cost 20 gold and Possessed models (with me playing) cost around 120. (You killed my best mutant! Crying or Very sad )

Was a fun couple of games, I am proud of my lizardmen and can't wait to play em again. We need to think up a time when our dwarf player can attend.

The other game store around my house would be ideal to play at, while it is a longer drive it is clean, has store terrain, and the owner is really cool. If your up for it, we could make a campaign there - with many different players!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Earthcrosser599
Hero
Hero


Posts : 26
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-24

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 14 May 2009 - 0:36

Here's two of the games we played several days ago.

Game 1 was a 4-player Wyrdstone Hunt. I started with someone who has a habit of singling me out every game right next to me, approximately 9 inches away.


Here's what the game looked like for him and me.


My view of his slayer of MEN.


His guy preparing for glory.

There was also a Marienburg mercenary and a Skaven player on the other side of the map. I never really had to take on the Skaven player and I didn't face the mercenary until the end.

His Fenris guy had the Sprint skill and charged me on his first turn, taking out a random archer. I started to fire on the rest of his guys and I think I took one of them out. After something like the first two turns I had shot up enough of them to force a rout check, which he somehow failed.

The skaven player basically suffered the same thing from the Marienburg player, but he did send a few of his slingers to harass my guys before he broke. I believe I suffered 1 casualty until I reached the mercenary player.


The aftermath of my fight with the mercenary. The troll looks much redder in this than he is on the table; I painted him with a base of Red Gore and covered it with Terracota.


I begin to mobilize my troops, heading for the mercenary player. He apparently used both of his blunderbusses on the Skaven, which was apparently his ace in the hole against me.


This was where he made his stand. He walked his horse up to the norther part of that little defenise area and waited for me. Which was fine with me.

He started to shoot at my guys, which would have worked if he wasn't outnumbered like4 to 1. In desperation he ran his mounted Captain at me and almost killed one of the archers. Then my guys began to massacre his other ones wholesale. He surprisingly managed to take the troll out in just one turn, beating my hopes that it would last at least two. Either way, I broke him when I mobbed up on his leader.



The next game was the Bar Room Brawl scenario from Mordheimer.com.



The Skaven player placed his guy in one of the inner corners of the bar, where the bulk of the fighting usually takes place.

That same Marienburger is something of an annoyance when we play this scanario. He typically just turtles in a corner and waits until the other players have beaten each other down and only one warband is still standing, at like 1/3rd of its normal strength before moving in. Because this is such a pansy way of playing, we decided that it was unacceptable and deployed our armies accordingly.



We had taken out all but two of the coward player's guys before the Skaven caught up and broke both my army and the allied mercenary, and I went to go do experience and exploration. Apparently while we were gone the Skaven guy had a terrible string of bad rolls, and the human was able to stay around due to his leadership 9. Eventually the skaven lost 1 too many models and broke.

Those little little painted marks on the back of my guys are how I know what henchmen group they belong to. There's Red Squadron, Blue Squadron, Green Squadron, and Gold Squadron. I had a Rogue Squadron for about 5 minutes before they both died to a giant rat. Bad idea to make close-combat Night Goblins.

It was still good fun.

Since then I've played 3 more games, but I didn't have my camera so I don't have any new pictures.

At the moment, I've played I think 7 games with them. I have a witch Hired Sword with the Scrye and Age of Stone spells, full heroes, a troll, 14 night goblins with short bows and BS 4, a halfling cookbook, some other random goodies like a Sniper Rifle on my Big Boss, and a Warband Rating of about 430. I'm going to retire it at 500.

I don't know if this is because of good rolls (which I have had for about half of my games), opponent mistakes/poor planning, overall efficiency, or any combination thereof, but from what I've played:

-Massed shooting is a match for even super elite opponents. All of my enemies are gainging 4+ experience for each of their guys every game, and I still have not had any games that were remotely close except for one where I told my opponent I wouldn't use any missile fire and his Middenheim mercenaries tore my goblins apart. Even though my bows are cheap, and my BS not particularly good (my henchmen have been BS 4 for about the past 4 games) but I have little trouble taking out even tough, well-armored opponents.

-The troll is a joke. His stupidity rule forces you to keep your leader close to him, where he is vulnerable. The troll is a massive drain on resources and is unable to inflict more than 1 wound per turn, though he is able to do that pretty reliably when he is not suffering from Stupidity.

-The high unit count makes it so that you can endure fairly high losses before having to make a break check. This is good because my leadership cap is 7.

-Spreading out my shooters makes it so that a single charger can't get into combat with more than 1 of my shooters. In melee my guys have something like a 16/1 loss ratio, with the only exception being when I have enough guys present that I will statistically roll enough 6s to make a difference.

-Amassed shooting gets old fast but is very reliable and cost-efficient. I routinely have 10+ shards that I have no reason to sell because there isn't anything more I can buy or that I want.

-Once this band hits a rating of 500, not counting my Witch, I'm going to retire it and try a melee build.

I hope some of that helps, and I'll keep you posted with my progress.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Figgy
Elder
Elder


Posts : 365
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-05-04
Age : 28

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Orcs & Goblins Orcs & Goblins
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 14 May 2009 - 6:55

I love you I love you sir, for posting a reply!

From your experiences, what do you think could be done to the warband to make it more enjoyable?

You have certaintly done alot of playtesting, and that's great!

Also, glad to see your army has been kicking arse and takin' names! You don't think they are overpowered do you?

Dubstyles and I have been fairly even - he has a tough time against the Sauruses tho.

Thanks for the pics! And let us know if there is anything that could be done to the warband to make it better! Very Happy

I am working on my version of the squig herder, but it's a bit powerful at the moment. Squig control is serious business!
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Pathfinder Dubstyles
Venerable Ancient
Venerable Ancient


Posts : 772
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-04-10
Age : 32
Location : North Carolina, US

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Possessed Possessed
Achievements earned: None

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 14 May 2009 - 8:07

Thank you for the battle reports and al the time spent playing the warband! Have all of your games been 4 player slugfests? It's hard to make those games even, eventually one player comes out above the others, usually the one who sits back and shoots. Not that there is anything wrong with that, Night Goblins hate close combat from my experience as well!

I second everything Figgy said, anything you might like to see changed, suggestions om making it less routine, and more enjoyable?
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.creativecasualty.net
Earthcrosser599
Hero
Hero


Posts : 26
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2009-04-24

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 14 May 2009 - 12:38

I'd say about half of my games have been big multiplayer games.

I've only lost I think one game in all the ones I've played. I'm not a particularly keen strategist, but I'm not sure the army is overpowered. I could make a strong argument that it is, but at the same time, the people I play with have made alot of poor decisions on where they spend their money which is probably a large factor in my success.

My shortbow spam is nice, but I shudder to think what a Skaven player can do if he brings nothing but slings.

I'm going to reserve the rest of my thoughts until I try out the melee list. I'm looking forward to it because the shooting one has gotten a tad dull. I enjoy exploration more than the actual games.
Back to top Go down
View user profile
Ram Rock Ed First
Knight
Knight


Posts : 82
Trading Reputation : 0
Join date : 2008-12-15
Age : 31
Location : Sydney, Australia (preferrably in the light of the Moon)

Personal Info
Primary Warband played: Shadow Warriors (Unofficial) Shadow Warriors (Unofficial)
Achievements earned: none

PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Fri 15 May 2009 - 10:10

Are these the most updated rules to date(?):

http://www.mordheimer.com/downloads/ex_wrbnds/Night_Goblins_v3.21.pdf

Cheers,

Ram.

P.S. If so:
Quote :
Frantic: The Fanatic is hyperactive and will strike first in combat ignoring penalties or bonuses for weapons or initiative order.


So basically you have strike first but ALWAYS first regardless of initiative. Where highest initiative is the decider in a normal strike first Vs. strike first situation, the rule is completely different in that nothing goes first except the Fanatic. Assuming this is correct, my suggestion would be to re-word the text to discard the strike first wording as it acts to confuse the issue of those people with a strike first weapon or ruling such as a spear. One way to get around this would be to either implement a rule like:

"Frantic:
The Fanatic is so hyperactive and agitated whilst under the effects of the mushrooms that he gains the strike first rule on all his attacks. Additionally, the Fanatic doubles his initiative statistic when determining who strikes first."

That would bring in the supe'd up speed you get from the little addicts but also bring the Frantic rule more in line with the core rules without confusing the issue. Another way you could represent the Frantic rule is to give it the same rule as a Crossbow Pistol in combat whereby all attacks made by the Fanatic are made before combat begins.


P.P.S. Squig Prodders? Where are they? The file references the 2002 Annual already for the WAAAGH! Magic list, so why hasn't the logical addition of a Squig Prodder to the list been added?

P.P.P.S. One other possible suggestion you might consider is the difference between common goblins and night goblins. As per the WHFB entries, Night goblins have -Ld but +1 Initiative and also hate dwarves. Whereas common goblins have +1 Ld and -1 I. So a Night goblin has base I 4 and Ld 5 and hatred to Dwarves, and a common goblin base Ld 6 but I 3. Thoughts ona change like this?


Cheers,

Ram.
Back to top Go down
View user profile http://www.deadfrontier.com
Sponsored content




PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Today at 19:19

Back to top Go down
 
Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)
View previous topic View next topic Back to top 
Page 2 of 6Go to page : Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 Similar topics
-
» Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)
» Night Goblins, I never was good at painting greenskins...
» Night Goblins and Troll etc.
» My Night Night Goblins from HELL! FOR SALE!
» My Night Night Goblins from HELL! FOR SALE!

Permissions in this forum:You cannot reply to topics in this forum
Tom's Boring Mordheim Forum :: General Discussion :: Rules and Gameplay-
Jump to: