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 Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)

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bondoid
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 15 Jul 2010 - 6:07

Quote :
That would allow a forty goblin warband! Might be a bit much.

Only the henchman would be half, heros would be a full model.

So the max would be 6 heroes and 28 night goblins.

That might be too much. If the Warband max size was 15 instead of 20 the max would be.
6 heroes 18 goblins.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 15 Jul 2010 - 7:08

I'll update the warband this weekend.

I did have the too big rule, ripped straight from halflings, in an earlier draft.

I don't think that allowing warbands over 20 is a good idea considering they all need to roll for animosity! it's already time consuming enough. If you do use such a rule be sure to share your experiments with us! The more feedback the better.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 15 Jul 2010 - 8:23

Thats a good point. About large numbers and animosity.

Could really drag out a game.

I havent played Mordheim in years. Just getting back into it with my gaming group this summer.

I've looked at a few night goblin lists, and yours is definitely the most complete and fair I have scene. Nice Work!
I will post thoughts/reflections as my campaign progresses.

One thing I dont care for, and has been mentioned earlier, is the extra wordiness and bookkeeping regarding the Squig Herder.

I like the idea of a Squig Herder hero who has a special bond with a squig. But not sure about the squig learning its own special skills. Maybe just having it advance like a henchman?

Id definitely keep the special rule about it staying with and protecting its master!

And a squig that explodes, upon death or suicide, is out right hilarious! And very Gobliny!


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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 15 Jul 2010 - 8:29

I also love the Giant Squig as the Super Heavy of the list.

It adds a lot more chaos and personality. Much more than the troll.

If only they had a squig model large enough!



What about a Swallow Whole special rule.

Swallow Whole:

If the Giant Squig hits with all its attacks it may subsitute those attacks with one Swallow Whole attack. This is resolved at Strength 5 with no armor saves allowed. It can not be Parried. If the model is wounded, it is immediately taken out of action regardless of wounds.
Let's just hope he comes out the other end OK!
You cannot swallow Large Targets whole.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 15 Jul 2010 - 14:22

I wanted to make a list independent of the troll, but the lack of a giant squig model is what has forced me to keep the troll available in lieu of the big hopper. The closest thing GW makes is the riding squig which has a goblin modeled on.

I am changing the squig herd to be more user friendly while still retaining his charm in the next version!

Your swallow whole rule is that is very similar to the troll vomit, harder to pull off but more deadly. I like the idea but am unwilling to add yet more special rules to an allready overly complex warband!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 15 Jul 2010 - 14:37

Sensible.

I eagerly await your next release!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Fri 16 Jul 2010 - 17:15

Same! I Bought a load of night goblins (inc fanatics) just for this warband (and to add to me orcs!)!!!

If only the forest goblin list was as well thought out! Sad
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 17 Jul 2010 - 10:24

I just bought a Squig Herder for the trident to do a conversion. If anyone want the Night Goblin miniature for a conversion of your own it has just been listed on ebay for 1 pence. Wink

Night Goblin Squig Herder - Ebay Item number:230500310632

Also listed a Mordheim Minotaur head (yes, just the head!) which is also at bargain starting price 1 pence.

Mordheim Minotaur head - Ebay Item number: 230500314657

Regards,

Werekin.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 24 Jul 2010 - 23:10

Newest Version: Night Goblins ver. 0.7 EDIT: SEE FIRST POST

Night Goblin Version 0.7 change log

Overhauled the way the squig herder works, now he acts as a more effective way of controlling many squigs. Many of the hearder's previous abilities and squig skills are now part of the new squig herder only skills. The trained cave squig now gains exp but gets no squig specific skills. So he starts with less abilities but can grow into a great herder.

The Squig Herder can no longer get Night Goblin special skills, but has his own set of Herding Skills.

Removed shooting skills from the herder.

Changed netter so that a model may not charge and throw. Now it allow you to throw the net into a combat with a slight chance to hit an unintended target. It now works similar to the fish-hook shot.

Removed backstabber, made new skill named sneaky git, echoing the original document in nomenclature if not mechanics. It is thematically similar to backstabber but leaves less room for model positioning arguments. I dislike straight +1 bonuses in h-t-h combat, so change helps to appease that quirk of mine.

Ride Squig skill removed

Changed starting experience again! Leader, back up to 20 like every other warband ever! Goonz now start with 4 exp.

Great Squig cost increased from 150 to 200 and increased its initiative from 3 to 4.

Removed the need to have NG warriors equal or greater than cave squigs.

Made Snotlings 0-6, so they can be worth 3 experience if all taken out by the same hero.

Changed the Great Squig's “Minderz” rule to “Wild” in order to draw attention to the fact it is indeed different.

Returned “Addict” rule to fanatics to help explain when and how to field them. I figured this rule was unnecessary but it is always good to spell out these things.

Various formatting changes.


Last edited by Pathfinder Dubstyles on Tue 26 Feb 2013 - 10:55; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 29 Jul 2010 - 9:11

So.... heroes can still take shortbows..?? I thought this was going to be removed to stop the 20 gobbos with bows cheese list?

If not then awesome because i'm modelling my NG warband as we speak and can put bows on my heroes. However i'll wait for a confirmation on this.

Also thanks for creating such an awesome warband dubstyles!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 29 Jul 2010 - 15:23

It's not overpowered, I don't think.

I would advise that heroes should take shortbows...I have played against Dubstyles enough to say that his heroes WILL be taking shortbows! Besides, aside from the herder, they have shooting skills!

The biggest thing that gets me, when playing against him, is his sheer number of scary goblins and squigs...

On a related note, I was the one who got to help decide that the Great Squig needed to cost more (by being the one eaten by him waaaaay too much waaaay too early in a campaign.)

So...to sum it up...go ahead and model your gobbos with shortbows, Dubstyles isn't going to change that, and if he wants to - I wont let him.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 29 Jul 2010 - 16:42

Thanks Figgy!

Two other things though.. what the hell is the deal with the netter skill?!?? What nets is this skill mentioning? Do i have to buy the nets like any other equipment? I asume so because the skill mentions nothing about rolling dice when using it. If so where are the rules for this aforementioned net?

The other thing is the herder special skills. The herder dosnt start with these skills right? I have to get them like i would get special skills for a trollslayer yeah?

Thanks
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 1 Aug 2010 - 18:49

The net is common item that costs 5 gold. The rules for which can be found in the Mordheim rulebook.

The Squig Herder has special rules which he starts with, and then several skills only he may pick. You do not start with these skills.

Yes heroes can still get shortbows, don't worry though, they are worse than slings for over double the price.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 1 Aug 2010 - 22:33

I played the first game of my new campaign with this warband tonight.

My starting list.

Boss with GW, Bosspole, Shortbow, and Madcap Mushrooms
Goon with GW, Sword, Sheild, Shortbow
Goon with 2x Clubs, Shortbow
Shaman with Shortbow
Squigherder with Shortbow and Squig Prodda
3 Warriors with Shortbows
4 Squigs
2 Fanatics with Ball and Chains and Mushrooms

I played against Lizardmen in a skirmish mission. I won pretty soundly, mostly due to my opponents inability to roll anything higher than a 1 on injury rolls.

The Fanatics were a lot of fun, they lost frenzy from getting knocked down before making it to combat, but they still took out a Saurus a piece.
After the battle one fanatic and one squig died. I replaced both but had to sell the GW on my Goon to do so. Fanatics are terribly expensive!

Im a bit worried about the future. In this game i won with 4 heroes alive, rolled above average on exploration and still ran a deficit!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 19:42

Don't forget to roll for side effects after each game for each goblin who uses a Mad Cap!!!

Admittedly there is too much going on in this warband... too many complicated rules, too many henchmen choices, and so many ways to build a warband it seems overwhelming at first. I have come to accept the monster this has become, because i love each and every part of it too much to cut anything!

You will find what me and other play testers have found, the warband starts off strong but in a long campaign will not be able to keep up with other warbands in terms of raw power.

It will take a lot of luck with things like squigs, animosity, and fanatics for things to go your way in the long run, but that's just the way the warband is designed.

Your income will be nonexistent with so many warband members. Replacements are cheap, but with that comes highly ineffective henchmen, who will fall quickly. You really need to focus on objectives and keeping heroes alive to maximize profits.

Hey no one said the life of a Night Goblin was easy!!

Slowly as more heroes and fanatics become stupid from madcap use, you will need to buy more. Fungus farmer will help offset that cost, but only if your heroes don't all go OOA every game. If you are using fanatics, which you obviously are, fungus farmer should be the first skill taken for several heroes. There is just no other way to make them worth the cost!

I see this as a finesse warband, if you give your heroes the right skills, and hide them until the right opportunity, and all the random elements swing in your favor at that crucial moment, it will be one hell of a charge. If the enemy survives you won't last long, but at least it was random and fun!

Hopefully this works out as i envisioned, although we shall see after our (but admittedly mostly you and others on the forum) playtesting.

P.S. For those trying to DL the rules, the domain is down right now, I'll get it up in the next few days...


Last edited by Pathfinder Dubstyles on Tue 3 Aug 2010 - 19:49; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : post script)
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sat 7 Aug 2010 - 1:20

I played two more games tonight. Both against the Lizard men player, my brother.

I got wrecked in both games. Saurus are nasty, with free "heavy armor" and 2 attacks!

What really killed me however was none of the random elements working in my favor.

I think i rolled above a 5 once for my squigs+fanatics on the charge.

When rolling for scenario we rolled up a Surprise Attack mission, with myself as the defender. After rolling to see what started on the table, i rolled crap and got only my squigs and one goblin hero.

Because of the rules of this mission, no models can be deployed within 8 inches of each other. Which means my squigs would have gone wild on turn one!

My opponent however was generous and we played a different mission instead.

I think the squigs should have a special rule, requiring them to be deployed in the control radius to counter scenario rules such as this. It would have been an auto game loss!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 8 Aug 2010 - 1:28

Can you clarify what the snotling 'elper item does? Does it grant extra attacks or shots?
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 8 Aug 2010 - 21:59

It allows you to carry one extra weapon.

Normally you are limited to 2 melee weapons and 2 ranged weapons.

For example, my shaman has a spear.
After rolling a lot of CC upgrades I decide i want to kit him out for duelweilding. But I dont want to lose the defensive benefit the spear can provide. So I buy 2 axes, and a snotling helper. The helper caries one axe for me. When in combat i can choose to either fight with the spear, or give the spear to the helper and use 2 axes!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 8 Aug 2010 - 22:15

Playtesting report.

The only warbands i have played against so far are skaven and lizardmen.

Ive played 8 games and I have lost every game except the first against the lizardmen player. The skaven players warband is pretty nasty now too, all his henchman have +1 str and attack!

Ive rolled a total of 9 Initiative increases between my henchman and heroes! lol. So im really starting to fall behind.

My main problem seems to be that my shooting is very unpredictable and i get completely slaughtered in close combat against both my enemies.

Furthermore my heroes never ever kill anything. Kills seem to only be gained from my bs 4 henchman, which is a shame because i didnt want to build a pure shooty warband.

I just got the Threaten ability on my squig herder, hopefully that will help with my squigs blowing their "charges." and my leader just got a crossbow (weapon expert) hopefully he will be able to kill things now with his 2 crossbow shots a round. He has so far failed to kill anything!

Im still very torn on the fanatics. They are potentially the funnest part of the warband. Fanatics are in my opinion the central icon that defines night goblin combat.

But man is it hard to use them. In all the games ive played they have only gotten into combat twice! They are so vulnerable to shooting. Even if they arent taken out of action, once they are knocked down and lose their frenzy they are pretty much worthless.

To be fair, ive had pretty rotten luck. They frequently come up short on their "charge" range and get shot down. Or find themselves unable to "charge" due to the necessity of moving through terrain which would automatically kill them. While the rules allow for Great Weapon weilding fanatics, not striking first = dead fanatic, and the ball and chain is really what drew me to this warband in the first place.

Also, whats the thought behind not letting a NG hero use a Ball and Chain. I was considering picking up Weapon Training to use one with one of my goons, whose all ready a mushroom eating wack job. Then I noticed that it specifically says they can never be wielded by a hero!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Wed 11 Aug 2010 - 21:38

Bondoid: I feel for your lack of luck with upgrades, my fearless models always tend to get leadership increases!!


Your first night goblin outing might not be going well, but i hope you are at least having some entertaining games!

About that ball and chain, I just didn't want to break the Orc and Goblin mold of heroes not using the weapon (since uppity goblins are killed by orcs!). If you want to try to arm a hero with one, who am I to say no?

Honestly, if your group allows the use of amateur created warbands, they should have no trouble with you tweaking the rules, so long as everyone agrees before the campaign!
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Thu 12 Aug 2010 - 14:43

I FINALLY printed out a copy of The Rules...looks REALLY COOL. Since I have around 200 Night Goblins complaining about a lack of purdy colors, I now have all the excuse I need to knock out a new War Band or two...excuses are SUCH valuable commodities . Thanks, Pathfinder.
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 15 Aug 2010 - 2:50

Really? You can only have two weapons in Mordheim?
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Sun 22 Aug 2010 - 1:48

I thought you could carry more but only use 2 at a time maximum??

another question, the ball and chain injury rolls, how exactly am I to handle these? as it says at the unwieldy special rule, that if the model was taken out of action normally, I don't have to make a second roll?? when do I make a second roll?

for as I understand it now, there are different ways of going OoA, but they all leave you OoA without any specific rolls at the time, and then after the game you only roll once on the injury table, seeing if you are striped off the list??
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 24 Aug 2010 - 6:30

Its pretty clear in the FAQ

You can carry your dagger
Two additional melee weapons
two ranged weapons. (a brace counts as one)
and any armor you desire
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PostSubject: Re: Night Goblins - New warband (fixed broken link)   Tue 24 Aug 2010 - 20:24

Ezekiel wrote:
the ball and chain injury rolls, how exactly am I to handle these? as it says at the unwieldy special rule, that if the model was taken out of action normally, I don't have to make a second roll?? when do I make a second roll?

The intent of that phrase, taken straight from the original Orc and Goblin Rules, was to tell players that the goblin always roll as if the went out of action, but does not roll twice if it actually does.
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