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 Hired Swords & Warband Rating

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DRD1812
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PostSubject: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 10:43

Do hired swords contribute to the "5 x Number of Warriors" part of warband rating, or do they only add their base rating bonus plus experience? In other words, is an elf ranger worth his base of 12 + XP + 5 or is he just 12 + XP?
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 11:15

I believe it's simply their rating bonus + exp, without that +5 per model markup.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 13:16

As long as the hired sword is part of the warband (i.e. paid in full and hanging around) I think it counts as a member and therefor counts toward the 5x member amount.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 13:21

PitFighterTrainer VS JAFisher44

Round 1

Ready?

Fight!
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Da Bank
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 13:31

JAFISHER is correct. A model is a model is a model, then add the experience that they bring along.

It is the same thing as your Leader. Human Leaders normally start at 20 exp and you still had the 5 pts per model.

This has now been answered.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 13:48

Not so fast, Da Bank. Here's the relevant rule from page 77:

"The warband rating is simply the number of warriors in it multiplied by 5, plus their accumulated experience.

Large creatures such as Rat Ogres are worth 20 points plus the number of Experience points they have accumulated."

These rules seem to contradict one another. Also, the ruling under actual hired swords is worded similarly (e.g. "A Pit Fighter increases the warbandís rating by +22 points, plus 1 point for each Experience point he has.")

Furthermore, the hired sword general description on page 105 has this confusing bit to add to the argument:

"Hired Swords do not count towards the maximum number of warriors or Heroes a warband may have on its roster and donít affect your income from selling yrdstone. However, Hired Swords do count as part of the warband for purposes of Rout tests, etc whilst in battle."

So are they "warriors" or aren't they for purposes of rating? And remember, it's 5 x number of warriors, NOT 5 x number of models.

And here's another point of contention: does the wardog count as equipment as it says in his description, or does he add the +5 to rating? Here's the wording in its description:

"Wardogs count towards the maximum number of warriors allowed in your warband."

So does the dog's warrior-ness apply only to your warband max, or is it applicable to rating too?
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 14:04

I guess dogs should definately add +5 as they are part of the warband for pretty much all purposes. ABout HS I'm not so sure. I didn't think they'd add +5 as they have their own explicit +X rating to warband rating (which is not similar to the starting experience of a leader).

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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 14:09

Yes, the wording of warriors and models is vague. I have my reasoning, but it may in fact be wrong. It could go either way.

But, with Bank's description, I would say it favors me. Reason - Leader starts with 20xp, and is included in the +5 per warrior inclusion for warband rating. No question. So, leader adds 25 to warband rating at beginning of campaign.

With Hired Swords, they explicitly state how much they add to the warband rating, and are listed as only counting towards the warband regarding rout tests, etc while in battle.

I think this is going to be a simple interpretation on each gaming group prior to the campaign kick off. Decide, and follow it.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 14:12

And yes, wardogs should cost +5 per model, as they count towards all other aspects of a warband, including warband limit.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 14:25

Cool beans guys. Thanks for your thoughts.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 14:43

DRD...why did you copy the informaiton later, you should have copied it at the beginning of your post so all would have the same information to read from as I don't carry my rulebook to work.



I have always played it that way.

Also note it does not say that they don't.

If you are likening a HS to a Troll then yes that seems the way it should be.





Dogs count for 5 exp.


Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 15:03

No, you're right about me there Da Bank. I suppose I try to ask the bare-bones question at the beginning in an attempt to promote good conversation.

This is admittedly devious of me, but I promise I'm not trying to set myself up for the "aha, caught you going against the rules" moment. I just want to see how people really play before I influence them with quotes from an imperfect rule book. That said, I can certainly quote the rules at the top of the post if everyone would prefer.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 16:32

PitFighterTrainer wrote:
And yes, wardogs should cost +5 per model, as they count towards all other aspects of a warband, including warband limit.

Don't get confused people. There are two different types of dogs.

One that is listed as Henchmen under the warband ..these should count as 5 exp

The other is an EQUIPMENT item that can be purchased...it specifically says that it counts towards the maximum # of models in the warband, but still is EQUIPMENT. Quote from the Rule Book...

"If you purchase a wardog, it will fight exactly like amember of your warband, though it is treated as part
of the equipment of the Hero who bought it. You will
need a model to represent it on a battlefield.

Wardogs never gain experience, and if they are put
out of action they have exactly the same chance of
recovering as Henchmen (ie, 1-2: Dead; 3-6: Alive).
Wardogs count towards the maximum number of
warriors allowed in your warband.
"

These would NOT add to warband rating, as equipment does not matter for warband rating.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 18:24

Yes, equipment is set that way. I was referring to those warbands that can gain animals as henchmen. I think there are a few, but you are right, the others that are purchased from the Marketplace are indeed equipment, and don't count towards warband rating, IMO.
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 19:21

HornedRat wrote:
PitFighterTrainer wrote:
And yes, wardogs should cost +5 per model, as they count towards all other aspects of a warband, including warband limit.

Don't get confused people. There are two different types of dogs.

One that is listed as Henchmen under the warband ..these should count as 5 exp

The other is an EQUIPMENT item that can be purchased...it specifically says that it counts towards the maximum # of models in the warband, but still is EQUIPMENT. Quote from the Rule Book...

"If you purchase a wardog, it will fight exactly like amember of your warband, though it is treated as part
of the equipment of the Hero who bought it. You will
need a model to represent it on a battlefield.

Wardogs never gain experience, and if they are put
out of action they have exactly the same chance of
recovering as Henchmen (ie, 1-2: Dead; 3-6: Alive).
Wardogs count towards the maximum number of
warriors allowed in your warband.
"

These would NOT add to warband rating, as equipment does not matter for warband rating.

The argument for equipment wardogs not counting toward the +5 for warband rating does confuse me. Its the same dog as the one found in warbands as a 'warrior'. Its purchased differently, but its the same dog. It counts toward the maximum number of warriors limit for the warband (just like the other dog...). Hired swords don't count towards the maximum number of warrior but the argument was presented that they are warriors and thus count +5...
Finally the wardog entry in equipment is found under the rules for horses. A warhorse adds 5 to the warbands rating (but doesn't count toward the maximum number of warriors). A riding horse adds 3 to a warbands rating.

js

scratch
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PostSubject: Re: Hired Swords & Warband Rating   Fri 30 Jan 2009 - 21:05

Dogs no matter how you get them count as 5 points a piece towards your warband rating.

Kurst found what I was looking for and missed it several times.

If a horse counts as three and counts as equipment then a wardog counts as 5 points.

This is the official ruling and it has never be changed.

If you want to "house rule" then do so.
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