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Axel
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PostSubject: Apologies   Fri 14 Dec 2007 - 7:29

im sorry for the spanish thing I meant on our school
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Fri 14 Dec 2007 - 9:30

well to be honest, I don't agree with Erkwin closing your thread.

It is of course totally pointless, but we are ine the "shout it out" section of the forum so one should be allowed to talk about anything.

Let me remind you the description of the shout it out section:
"Any topic that is not related to Mordheim!
Just write about anything that crosses your mind...ANYTHING. Politics, Science, Jokes etc."

Anyway, Erkwin, you're the moderator so you're the boss cyclops
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Fri 14 Dec 2007 - 12:43

Of course the "free-for-all" forum is a place for quite meaningless stuff(anyway, the word "meaningless" is very vast), but there should be some kind of entertainment, or the base for a funny discussion or anything like this.
But this thread was simply "I don't like spanish", which is neither funny for others to read nor the base for a good conversation.

It's just a statement of your own opinion, about which you cannot talk with others beside from "Well I don't think so" or "Oh yes I agree with you".
If you want to express that you don't like something, you could put it in your signature, but opening a post is, like I said, quite pointless.

I hope this didn't sound too rude, Axel, no offense, simple my point of view.
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Fri 14 Dec 2007 - 13:23

Erkwin wrote:
It's just a statement of your own opinion, about which you cannot talk with others beside from "Well I don't think so" or "Oh yes I agree with you".
If you want to express that you don't like something, you could put it in your signature, but opening a post is, like I said, quite pointless.

Well, the same is true for politics and religion in most cases (religion especially) which is a reason why talking about religion is forbidden amongt the free masons, if I remember right. But whatever...

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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Fri 14 Dec 2007 - 14:38

When talking about politics you often have a lot of arguments, which isn't really the case when talking whether Spanish is stupid or not.

I mean politics are very important, though I often ask myself why people make some things so complicated.
Well religion... best not to start talking about it, it is absolutly useless because who won't convince the other side anyway, and if I wrote what I think about certain religions, I would offend a lot of people without reaching anything.

I think this discussion is quite interesting and also good for the forum to see how far you can go in the "free-for-all" sub-forum, so keep posting Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 7:29

Well there are two issues at hand here:
  • on the one hand, freedom of speech: one can talk about anything, say everything he wants to say, "I don't like spanish" or "I prefer Hinduism to Buddhism" or whatever...
  • on the other hand, control of this forum: all posts should be harmless and interesting enough, so that people still come and read the forum...
Moderators are here to try to find the right balance between the two.

IMHO, censuring little chavs like johnparks because he was offensive and harmful, or banning other users because they spam the forum by posting dozens of pointless messages, is the right thing to do!!
But closing threads like this one (I mean the "I don't like spanish" one) and having too much control over what people are allowed or not allowed to say, is not right. Especially in the "free-for-all" section.

Of course, the "I don't like spanish" topic was totally pointless, but I found it quite absurd and therefore funny... If I and Axel are the only ones that find that kind of topic funny, then the rest of you guys shouldn't post replies, so that Axel and I, after posting some crap, would realise that our thread wasn't funny after all, and would stop posting stupid spanish comments because we would be ashamed to do so...
Do you see what I mean? The thread would kind of "die by himself", being asphyxiated by the lack of interest of the other forum dwellers... just like the "lego movies" topic or the "3-word-battle" one.
Therefore: you shouldn't have closed that thread, Erkwin. That's the point I'm trying to make here Wink

Sorry for making such a fuss about this, guys, but I'm really concerned about freedom of speech and control of this freedom. I think this debate is fascinating not only in internet forums, but in real life as well!!
(BTW Erkwin, I'm studying politics... so don't get me started on politics! you already see the results... Wink )

lol!
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Axel
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 7:56

well i bet yuore going to be a great lawyer XD
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 9:02

Erm... Axel? To be a lawyer you need to study law not politics Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 9:42

Ok, I see why you think so.

In fact, I think you're right about this, but I also think "freedom of speech" is often used as an alibi for talking about absolutly pointless things which are not funny but annoying(which does not mean that this thread is annoying).

I mean, of course no one is allowed to forbid you to talk.
But as you have the right, you should also think if it makes sense to use it every time you are bored by your school work.

And if no one wants to add something very important to the "spanisch is stupid" thread, I think it can as well stay closed.

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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 9:53

And who gives you the right to decide what is annoying and what is funny?

By closing the "spanish is stupid" thread, you just imposed on all of us your conceptions of what should be considered as funny, and what should be considered as annoying.

santa
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 10:34

Tortiou wrote:
And who gives you the right to decide what is annoying and what is funny?

That's the point why we're arguing Elf
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 10:48

Relaaaax Tortiou, Erk is just doing his job Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 11:23

Hey - don't take me wrong on this one, I'm just trying to debate... Not arguing Smile

Anyway, you can say and you can do what you want, you'll never have... ma liberté de penser.

Car vous n'aurez paaaaaas... ma liberté de penseeeeer!! la la la
Florent Pagny

Question Question Question
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 12:01

lol!

Ok Tortiou, expecting the others to understand THAT allusion is a bit of a stretch Very Happy

"Florent Brunel" Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 12:46

Tortiou wrote:
Hey - don't take me wrong on this one, I'm just trying to debate... Not arguing Smile


Don't worry I don't, "arguing" wasn't meant as something bad Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 17:22

I think Tortiou is totally right, but I don't think I can add anything new to the debate that he did not already say. So I am simply stating that I completely agree with Tortiou and let him do the talking about this topic.

Do you remember the PM I sent you, Tom? About the closed thread in the Specialist Games forum? Déjà vu!

Unjustifiable comparision! This is clearly not the same situation! Apology is due! - Cianty (moderator)

I'm sorry! Should have spent a second thought on it. Apologies!
- Cianty (hothead)

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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 17:29

Oh, and while we're discussing lockage policy here: why did the threads about Catwallon and Blue Table get locked? I remember wanting to post in BT and was surprised and then disappointed that it was locked. Why is it so?

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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sat 15 Dec 2007 - 18:47

Oh, sorry about that! I just closed it because I thought the discussion was over silent
In fact, I'll go reopen it straight away!

Done! Thread opened.
--Admin Tom, at your service Very Happy


cianty wrote:
Do you remember the PM I sent you, Tom? About the closed thread in the Specialist Games forum? Déjà vu!

Oh come on Cianty, you have to be fair now. I really don't think that's the same.

The way you told me the story, that thing on the specialist games forum was a genuine discussion about an aspect of Mordheim (are Warplock pistols blackpowder weapons or not?) that was boycotted by some prepotent moderators.

This here is really something else. You will probably not find a person that is more pro-freedom of speech than myself, but discussing wether a "language is stupid or not" is just a waste of time. Sorry. So if you think it's a déjà vu, please do look again.

Maybe Erkwin should not have closed the thread. Maybe. But in his defence, I think he just wanted to prevent people from posting random thoughts just because they are bored during their lunch break. I guess if the so-called "spanish-controversy" (I still believe there is none) had been formulated more like a debate topic by Axel, Erkwin would not have felt like closing the thread. It just isn't credible when someone starts a discussion with "Those of you who hate spanish raise your hand!". That is not a genuine question, nor does it in any way aim at giving rise to a disputatio (if I may say so). Why? Because it allows only for a yes or no answer, that even if given, is irrelevant because a language cannot be designated as clerver or stupid, just as a cupboard cannot be called "friendly" or "rude". That is absurd! Very Happy

That being said, I still think it is very interesting that the discussion about "censorship" on forums came up, even if it was sparked by a somewhat questionable post. I think it is interesting that we talk about that, and I think you have all made very good points. Thank you Axel, you certainly did not do it on purpose, but you triggered something interesting here Wink

Please keep posting guys!

And one last remark: I close threads from time to time because I have thought until now that unanswered threads that remain open are a nuisance for users and give the impression that no one looks after the forum. Clearly I was wrong. So from now on threads will stay open much longer Wink
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sun 16 Dec 2007 - 1:38

Ok!

At least I managed to change the Admin's point of view about closing threads. That's a good thing and I'm happy with that!!

cyclops

(I sooooo love this cyclops smiley!!)

Hey, BTW, I hate Visigoths and spiders! What about you guys?
(just kidding ^^)
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sun 16 Dec 2007 - 3:15

Yeah, you're right Tom. It is somewhat different. Especially the intention of the threads and the posts in them are different. I guess I'll have to apologize for that comparison... which is probably a good thing cause that's the thread title here anyways so I'm getting back on topic. It's just... I don't know... what's everyone problem with two or so guys posting nonsense in one thread? I mean, if they're happy with it and if it helps relieve some pressure and/or frustration from school/work why not let them do it? As long as it does not offend anyone but provides FUN to those posting in the thread I don't think it's wrong. If you don't care and do not find it worthy your attention, simply ignore the thread.

Also you are having an interesting point regarding closing threads. Maybe it is indeed good to have closed threads, in terms of clarity. But it often happens that people want to bring something new to the table, especially the Blue Table probably (bad pun, sorry! jocolor ). So I'm glad you reopened that thread.

Now what this discussion tells us is that we should have a clear definition of what the shout-it-out forum is meant for. What kinds of topics are allowed in here and what is not appreciated?

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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Sun 16 Dec 2007 - 18:52

Hey Cianty!

You have a point there: what IS allowed in the shout-it-out section? After all, as the title implies, you should be allowed to "shout out" anything you want! Very Happy

Seems logical. So if you consider it, Axel was doing nothing wrong. Why is it then, that some of us felt like this so-called "nonesense" thread should be closed?

Let's ask the corollary question: what is NOT allowed on the shout-it-out thread.

I'd say, posts/threads that are one of the following should be banned (maybe even punished):
- racist
- sexist
- blasphemic
(Please feel free to complete the list!)

That implies that everything else is allowed.

The baseline is, that from now on, we will let threads "die" of starvation in the shout-it-out section, so that we can be sure that no-one's freedom of speech is being imped Wink

Please note that I am talking about the shout-it-out section only! This means that grossly off-topic posts/threads in other sections might well get locked
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PostSubject: Re: Apologies   Today at 8:58

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