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Fallen
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PostSubject: Skaven Assistance   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 2:53

I usually take a pair of fighting claws (weeping blades in one-off matches) for my adept and a pair of flails for my black skaven upon starting a skaven warband.

Recently however, upon looking at the Skaven tactics part on the Mordheimer site, they suggest Black Skaven with Fighting Claws Assassin Adept with Brace of Warplock Pistols...

Theoretically, I see the logic to this. Assassin Adept's getting a grand total of -4 to enemy armour and two S5 attacks in the first round of combat (Unless I've stuffed up just now in my head...) and of course Black Skaven swapping a heavy hit on the first turn with two S4 attacks with parries and re-rolls.

And, I intend to swap the Black Skaven's flails with the fighting claws, as two attacks to me outweighs the advantage of a single S6 attack for a turn.

But is the extra 35gc on my Assassin adept worth it? I mean sure he has BS4 and to not use it may be slightly wasteful, but at the same time I could get two giant rats...

I would like the opinions of others Schtroumpf
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 3:33

You cannot go wrong with weeping blades, fighting claws, or warplock pistols. That being said, the expense of the pistols is more than I'm willing to pay for a starting warband. Also, the pistols do not scale with experience advances like the others do. Yes, S5 is nice, but give your adept mighty blow and that's his base attack. You don't even need S5 when you have FC with the AOSD skill giving +2 attacks with a 33% chance to crit. WB with swordsman is almost as good, giving an extra attack and auto wounding on 6's with rerolls.

I traditionally go with WB on my adept so that he can use his BS4 with a sling. However, since I regularly encounter poison resistant warbands, I will probably change him to FC which loses the sling, but adds a parry reroll and is cheaper (as well as the aformentioned melee destruction).

Flails are great, but with S4 models against T3 models, I find the extra attack from a second weapon to be more useful. Maybe go flail vs dwarves or orcs until you get a skillup for AOSD or swordsman. Flail is also a great way to feed exp to a sorcerer lacking a decent range spell.

Quote :
But is the extra 35gc on my Assassin adept worth it? I mean sure he has BS4 and to not use it may be slightly wasteful, but at the same time I could get two giant rats...
Here you touch on the key to skaven. The majority of the time, you'd be better served with cheap henchmen that uber equipment. I prefer verminkin with 2 daggers (or dagger/club) and a sling over giant rats. An additional melee attack and 2 extra ranged attacks are more than worth the 9 extra gold.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 6:22

Fallen wrote:
and two S5 attacks in the first round of combat (Unless I've stuffed up just now in my head...)

Just a reminder: without the skill Pistolier, he can only fire one each turn. Although, a Brace means firing a S5 shot every turn outside of combat, which ain't too a bad.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 8:10

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Just a reminder: without the skill Pistolier, he can only fire one each turn. Although, a Brace means firing a S5 shot every turn outside of combat, which ain't too a bad.

You don't need Pistolier to dual wield pistols in combat. It only applies if you want to shoot both at range.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 22:17

Alright, going with Weeping Blades (I can't convert very well anyways, and there's already some wicked weeping blade equipped assassins...) but, eventually is buying throwing stars better than a sling?

I appreciate the feedback so quickly, and last question (I never came accross this before which is funny) can skaven wear heavy/gromril/ithilmar armour ever? I mean cause it's not in their equipment lists, and same goes for bucklers/shields (for those with one and not the other).
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Tue 27 Jan 2009 - 1:16

First of, I think i'm one of the only ones who love giving my assasin a warplock pistol, I usaly start with just one. I like it, I shot a lot of enemys to bits. I dont know if you can give your assasin shoooting skills, but then you could give him eagle eye, witch makes you pistol a decent high strengt shootie weapon!

And as for your second cuestion; I dont believe there is a rule that says that you cant wear heavy armour (but i might be mistaken), what I do know is that you can always wear a gromril/ithilmar version of your armour.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Tue 27 Jan 2009 - 1:34

Gromril and ithilmar armor are heavy armor. Skaven cannot wear heavy armor, so cannot wear gromril or ithilmar armor. The only way that they could is if they picked up a skill that let them use heavy armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Tue 27 Jan 2009 - 2:45

Fallen wrote:
eventually is buying throwing stars better than a sling?
Yes, I would consider the throwing stars an upgrade to the sling for the adept. You get +1S, and since he should be in melee, he's probably going to move in a turn if he didn't charge, thus you also avoid the -1 for moving and shooting. He's only going to be able to hit things that were within his charge radius (6" move plus 6" range), but this still helps to hit things you could not have seen when charges were declared.

Fallen wrote:
can skaven wear heavy/gromril/ithilmar armour ever? I mean cause it's not in their equipment lists, and same goes for bucklers/shields (for those with one and not the other).
Unfortunately JAFisher is correct. And you are correct that skaven henchmen cannot use bucklers and the 4 good starting heroes cannot use shields.

A minor note: my gaming group houserules that any warband which cannot use heavy armor may treat the magical artifact Att'la's Plate Mail as light armor (only 6+ save) which retains the rest of its special abilities. This makes it so all warbands can make use of it.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Tue 27 Jan 2009 - 16:20

JAFisher44 wrote:
Gromril and ithilmar armor are heavy armor. Skaven cannot wear heavy armor, so cannot wear gromril or ithilmar armor. The only way that they could is if they picked up a skill that let them use heavy armor.
As Heavy armour is not available to the orcs in their starting list, I'm assuming the same for them applies?

(On another note, warband build may arrive in the warbands thread shortly)
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Tue 27 Jan 2009 - 18:03

Quote :
As Heavy armour is not available to the orcs in their starting list, I'm assuming the same for them applies?

This is so.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 2:30

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Fallen wrote:
and two S5 attacks in the first round of combat (Unless I've stuffed up just now in my head...)

Just a reminder: without the skill Pistolier, he can only fire one each turn. Although, a Brace means firing a S5 shot every turn outside of combat, which ain't too a bad.



he was talking about getting 2 strength 5 attacks in the first round of hand-to-hand combat, you don't need pistolier for that jocolor

that being said must have an extra note: if the skaven in question fired one of his pistols before he ge's in to close combat. rules wise it gets grey Razz

two options:

A. just for having 2 pistols he gets 2 attacks.
B. Pistols have reload, so he would only get one attack.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 5:44

JAFisher44 wrote:
Quote :
As Heavy armour is not available to the orcs in their starting list, I'm assuming the same for them applies?

This is so.
Now, for High Elves who get Light and Ithilmar armour, would that imply heavy armour and gromril is usable, or not? I'm assuming no...

Quote :
A. just for having 2 pistols he gets 2 attacks.
B. Pistols have reload, so he would only get one attack.
Encouragement enough to get throwing knives instead, with knife fighter and eagle eyes...

Confusions become confusing.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 12:14

I've checked and rechecked the rules for warplock pistols. I can't find any rules which state that they may be used in close combat.

I'm inclined to think this is an oversight, and I'd be happy if someone could point out the appropriate rule.

On a separate note, how do you handle multiple attacks on a hero's profile in conjunction with a brace of pistols? If I use both pistols in close combat, do I lose my extra profile attack(s)? If I attack with only one pistol, does my off-hand weapon get the multiple attacks on my hero's profile?


Last edited by DRD1812 on Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 13:33; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 12:26

Warplock pistols are pistols in every sense, just with extra rules. They may be used just like pistols in CC.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 17:34

Fallen wrote:
Now, for High Elves who get Light and Ithilmar armour, would that imply heavy armour and gromril is usable, or not? I'm assuming no...
As was pointed out earlier in the thread, any model which can use heavy, Ithilmar, or Gromril armor can use them all. Ithilmar and Gromril Armor are just types of heavy armor.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 19:05

Yeah, panzy lists only list Ithilmar cause that is what is available to them. They still have to know how to use heavy armor to use it.
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PostSubject: Re: Skaven Assistance   Today at 5:10

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