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 How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??

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Malekith
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PostSubject: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sat 24 Jan 2009 - 18:57

i am currently working on my 1st warband (dark elves) to start my 1st campaign ever, didnt play my 1st ame actually. and given the style i liked to play in WHFB was shooting army ( one-third of which was magic ), i would do a warbadn with similar properties not to be that disadvantaged vs the other players. the warband i was thinking of consisted of mainly these, a hero, 5 shades and 2 sorcerers, a fellblade or 2( not sure about them yet ), and some 'sacrificable henchmen' (corsairs) which could use a repeater crossbow, maybe a beastmaster with cold ones of GCs permit.

would like to know what u guys think of such a warband, felblades are np to remove, same with one caster i think, the shades i would like to keep them Razz the only thing that let me down in the DE list is that harpies and assassins are not there :S it would be nice to base the entire game on a couple of assassins, or u think it would be too overpowered?

help would be greatly appreciated as i need to find my way for the moment.
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sat 24 Jan 2009 - 18:58

PS sorry about the typos. its 3 am Razz and this music doesnt help Razz
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sat 24 Jan 2009 - 19:38

Well, I don't have any experience playing as Dark Elves, but I do know that ranged bands vary greatly in power depending on terrain setup. In a sparse table, ranged warbands will clean up handily, killing or routing enemy bands with ease. But, if you set up very busy tables with many buildings and tight roads and alleys, it is far easier to move up on ranged models without exposing yourself. Usually, models that focus on range suffer in close combat.

So I guess what I am saying is that it depends on your local Mordheim environment. I personally believe that DE bands are more balanced if the terrain is thick, and quite a bit overpowered if the terrain is sparse.

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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sat 24 Jan 2009 - 20:53

Malekith wrote:
2 sorcerers
Whut?

1 Sorceress in a warband. Max. Where are you getting your rules?
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 5:32

0-2 in the warband list, does that not mean i can include 2 ?

lol just checked now Razz 0-1, sorry ure right Razz hmm not good, this requires some thinking Razz ( take it easy on me im new Razz Wink
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 6:52

Hey Malekith!

I have no experience with Dark Elves in Mordheim (I have a tiny WHFB army though). Although I can tell you that shooting warbands usually do rather well if they can back up the shooting with a little close combat.

Usually CC only warbands don't do well (in my experience). Shooting-only warbands do a little better but the ideal thing is a mix.

Magic is pretty useless in Mordheim unless you have the courage of keeping your spellcaster for quite some time and focus only on academit skills, until he finally reaches a point where he is semi-useful (provided he survives that long).
I personally like magic a lot, BUT I have NEVER successfully cast a spell in all my "Mordheim carreer" (meaning that the few times the spell actually managed to go off, it did not do any damage other than knock down someone).

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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 7:22

lol thats unlucky my friend, i tend to luck out on rolls, hitting 18 / 20 shots on a 5+ roll happened once Razz same on break tests on leadership 3 (once as well) xD anyway, spellcasters dont succeed in their purpose? thats interesting, may save me a bit of GC fromthe begnning then. i am still very unsure. + i found out that its not worth using 5 shades, they have less bs/ws than corsairs and cost only 5GC less, and nothing as scouts in morhdeim. so 2 maybe 3 to hide them will i think would be ideal.

PS. i agree on mixed warbands being the best, thats where some corsairs come in Smile a bit of ditraction while they aim Smile
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 7:57

It'd make the warband even smaller, but could he find a 2nd spellcaster in a Hired Sword. The ones I think the DE could probably use are Warlock, Witch, and a Chaos Emissary (Tzeentch mark; although the emissary doesn't START with spells, he can learn them... and the WS5, S4, T4 makes him a decent fighter too.
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Von Kurst
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 8:54

The Chaos Emmisary? Where's THAT from?

I'll go with the standard "I don't run Dark Elves" comment. However, I have faced them in many a dark jungle and skink haunted ruin.

My usual comments are these.
--Max out your hero slots. Mordheim is a heroic adventure game with an emphasis on the heroes. They drive your income and income keeps the band alive. The rank and file are there to perform feats worthy of promotion (so that you can fill that 6th hero slot) and to protect the heroes with their lives. NO HERO is worthless!
--Tom plays in a different Mordheim universe than I do. Magic can rule in Mordheim! Really killy spells are hard to cast its true, but there are many useful spells that are 6 or 7 to cast. The DE have only one but its Witchflight which is handy for picking up free experience by flying over to knocked down or stunned models and taking them OOA or securing that piece of wyrdstone.
--Have a long range plan. If you want another spell caster give your Lads Got Talent guy the acedemic skill and then look for a Tome of Magic. With the option of hired swords you could have 4 or 5 casters in your band before campaigns end. (Unless it ends in 6 weeks with a max of 2 games per week...)
--Prey on the Weak! In starting games look for the enemies weakest warriors and kill them. Run away from anything nasty. This is only an income preservation measure. One on one any of your heroes can fight if they have to. Try to ensure that they don't have to...

Hired Swords--You can hire them for a new warband and their hire fee is cheap compared to henchmen. (Its the upkeep that gets you in the long run...) But you could start a warband with all 5 heroes, a Warlock or a Witch, and a couple of Shades.

Equipment--buy repeater crossbows for your leader, the Beast Master, the Sorceress and buy everyone an extra dagger. This will give you 6 shots and one spell per turn or 4 shots and 2 spells.

Good hunting!
js

Edit: I just noticed you were thinking of Corsairs as scarificial warriors. Its probably the lateness of the hour but the Shades are your red shirts. They are cheap but can still become heroes. If someone has to take one for the team, send a Shade. Corsairs would be the Lads Got Talent of choice. Better starting stats and equipmentt choices. Not good for a starting warband because of expense but once the income flows buy Corsairs and give them repeaters.
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 11:13

Von Kurst wrote:

Tom plays in a different Mordheim universe than I do.

I guess that's a good point. I have never played in Lustria and am not familiar with the spells used there.

Von Kurst wrote:

Magic can rule in Mordheim!

Provided you GET the (randomly determined) spell that is kick-ass and you actually manage to CAST it. Yes.
Despite this, I personally like using spellcasters - although I have not much faith in their capabilities - just because the models usually look nice and I just like the idea Smile

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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 12:09

I admit I am kind of picky about which warbands can play in a setting. I have no objection to DE in other settings, but I've only fought them in Lustria... Foul magics in Lustria, Tom, foul.

We play often so we get nearly everywhere, but its generally not the location, its the warbands mix. The Orc shaman can be a monster through the use of his spells, as can the Beast shaman, the skaven warlock or anybody with a decent Balistic Skill and Silver Arrows.
Witches are always annoying. There are not enough Witch Hunters!
In RotC I am running a Scholar and a Holy Man. Both have the heal prayer. I guard them from charges and put them behind Ali and Aman (my fighters) and the Dogs become very hard to shift. Without the healing prayer they are gone in a round...
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 14:52

The Chaos Emissary was part of the "new hired swords" pdf... one of the last pdfs posted by the SG site before it crashed. They were by Ethlorien, and included a lesser Chaos Champion figure. The Tzeentch one could learn a dark spell. (Oddly, it never specified whether it could learn only one spell, or more than one spell... also said it could learn Academic Skills, so I'm guessing more than one.)

Oh, and you could probably use the Dark Emissary HS from the Albion setting. If you're concerned about "appropriate settings", I think Albion, Nemesis Crown and Empire in Flames seems to fit well enough.
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 15:08

aha i see, what equipment u think would be useful for such a warband? i like the idea von kurst said about heroes lock and 2 - 3 shades. i was told by rl life friends that armur is close to useless in this game, since i played WHFB its hard to believe :S
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 15:58

Styro-king@Thanks, I missed that. Ethlorien, he posts on this forum right? We could ask...

Malekith@Really, honest some of the rules are just like Warhammer and others aren't. Mordheim isn't about winning or losing a particular game so much as keeping the warband alive. One of my friends joins us for games frequently. He is proud of the fact that his warbands don't voluntaily run. He usually drops out because he can't replace losses because his heroes are Out of Action at the end of games. No income, no warband.

A starting warband doesn't need much equipment, just enough to hurt the enemy before he can hurt you. Repeater crossbows, daggers. Good things come to those who survive.
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 16:00

isee, thanks a lot, i think my warband is set for now Smile have 15 points to spend, dunno if i am gonna save them for my next turn's lock upkeep or spend in armour for my heroes
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Sun 25 Jan 2009 - 21:03

I'm not much of a power gamer, but I agree that the keys to lasting are:
1. Keep the number of heroes up as high as possible
2. Rout while you still have at least one hero left conscious.

As far as armor, worry about that MUCH later. A single sword given to a warrior is a great defensive weapon (parry and attack). In the meantime, lucky charms (10gc for an item that negates the first hit you take on 4+) are wonderful, and don't forget the best kind of shield: henchmen! You could waste 25gc on Light armor, but the light armor's not going to intercept a charge, get more powerful with experience, pick up treasure, and possible advance into a hero.
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 0:50

A few things to add from my mordheim experience:

I have found that magic is a game-changing aspect of the game. Of the default spells, I am only familiar with the sigmar, undead, and skaven spells, but warpfire, black fury, gnawdoom, and hammer of sigmar are all difficulty 8 or less and have often changed the course of our battles. There are some equally game-changing spells on the official orc, carnival, and ostland lists. Obviously some of the unofficial warbands have powerful magic as well, some on the verge of imbalance (shadow warriors *ahem*).

One three-way battle ended on the second turn with my opponent casting (albeit luckily) the official carnival spell Pestilence, taking three of my dark elves and three of the other players' humans OOA. With both of us not having had a chance to charge or even get shots off, we were both down nearly a third of our warbands.

If you want a second spellcaster, get the witch. Her spells are surprisingly effective for their difficulty. Cursing anything (even a young dragon) makes it laughable.

Armor is extremely cost ineffective as in mordheim the average strength of attacks is much higher than in warhammer, and there are also much more effects which negate it. However, the dark elves do have probably the most viable armor option which is unique to their band.
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 9:16

hmm u are all naminh witches, where from guys ? i can only see warlocks. played my 1st 2 games today. with a highborn a sorceress, 2 shades, a beast master and cold one, 2 fellblades and 1 warlock. went quite good i think. still i would like to see these witches since they are quoted this much.
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PostSubject: Re: How Well does a warband based on shooting and magic work ??   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 11:58

Witches are from Town Crier 13. She's good, as she also gives 1 hero per battle the option of taking a potion for random effects. I used it on a ghoul hero, and he got +1 Wound for that battle. Mine has Scry (able to allow 1 hero/henchman D3 rerolls for the current turn) as well as Age of Stone (1 enemy model within 12" has -1 to all Characteristics for 1 turn)

She's worth it, as far as I can see.
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