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 Spells and Line of Sight

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Cinderspark
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PostSubject: Spells and Line of Sight   Sun 18 Jan 2009 - 20:04

I was looking throught the Ultimate FAQ provided on Mordheimer.com and found the following;

Q: If a spell does not specifically state that Line Of Sight is needed, do obstacles or buildings prevent a model within range from being hit?
A: No. [Tuomas, Mordheim Yahoo! eGroups' FAQ]


This seems to be in contradiction to the Mordheim 2002 Annual which states;

Q: Can spells be cast at a model which is out of Line of Sight to the caster or which are hidden? What about spells which simple affect models within a certain radius of the caster?
A: Spells cannot be targeted at models which are out of sight. However models which are out of sight may still be affected by spells provided another model is targeted and they fall within the spells radius.

Alot of spells having either friendly or hostile effects do not state line of sight is needed. What is the actual ruling on this?

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Cinderspark
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PostSubject: Re: Spells and Line of Sight   Mon 19 Jan 2009 - 0:00

I found this thread in regards to the same thing.

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/rules-and-gameplay-f1/a-few-thoughts-about-spells-t1056.htm

It seems that playgroups choose either way but the actual rules are that unless stated otherwide LoS is NOT needed. It is 'magic' after all.
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PostSubject: Re: Spells and Line of Sight   Mon 19 Jan 2009 - 6:29

Yes, there is one glaring missunderstanding in the rules.

The spell radius is for those spells that say "radius". Radius means circle and some spells use a radius but most do not.

There is another a part that "common sense" must be used as there is not way possible to define each possibility as models and terrain play a big factor in this.

When I get home tonight and get all the data in front of me I will try to spell it out better.
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PostSubject: Re: Spells and Line of Sight   Mon 19 Jan 2009 - 16:12

In my case I'm looking at 'Fist of Gork' and can see there is an arguement for both sides.

It is described as; "Twin bolts of green flame shoot from the Shamanís nose to strike the nearest enemy model."
Range 12
".
Each of the two bolts causes D3 S3 hits; the bolts can either be fired both at the closest enemy target
or split between the two closest enemy targets.


Whilst 'bolts' makes one think of aimed missile fire and thus LoS (although they are fired from the nose so maybe Gork smells them), the target requirement that being which enemy model is the closest or next closest, put needing any LoS into much doubt. If it were a requirement then it should read the nearest model you can see as there will be many many circumstances where the nearest enemy model will not be visible and that would preclude the spell from being able to be cast.

All spells have a difficulty componant regardless in addition to any other needed rolls and it is this variable target number that I believe sets it apart from missile fire and needing sight lines, unless otherwise stated in the spell description.



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PostSubject: Re: Spells and Line of Sight   Sat 24 Jan 2009 - 14:39

I tried emailing the creator of the Orc list and he has not responded.

If the spell is like shooting then yes LOS would be needed. Unfortunately, the rule book does not spell it out.

I will tell you this is on the top of list for the next rules review.
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PostSubject: Re: Spells and Line of Sight   Mon 26 Jan 2009 - 19:20

Thanks for the attempt.

AFAICT, it is only spells similar to the likes of Lesser Magic Spell "Silver Arrows of Arha" that states to use BS and 'Fires of U'zhul" that hits the first model in its path that lend themselves towards LoS. But if we look at the rules in a literally then unless otherwise stated it is not needed. I prefer using common sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Spells and Line of Sight   Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 16:41

This question came up amongst my group in regards to the Lizard Men spell Chotec's Wrath:

Chotecís Wrath: A lightning bolt shoots from the
sky above and strikes the closest enemy model within 10" of the Skink
Priest, causing a single Strength 5 hit. However, add +1 to the Strength and
+1 to the roll on the injury table if the model is wearing armor like light
armor, heavy armor, Ithilmar armor or Gromril armor. Difficulty 8


You could interpret the designer's intent one of two ways:

1. The Old Ones are directing lightning at the skink priest's enemies. The skink priest does not need to see his target, merely calling upon his gods to do the work for him.

2. The phrase "closest enemy model" is meant to limit the caster's choice of targets. Note that this is similar to the "must fire at closest enemy" ballistics rule, implying that line of sight is necessary.

I tend to think that option 2. more closely mimics the designer's intent. It seems a bit broken (not to mention un-fluffy) for a priest to stand on the other side of a castle wall and blast away with lightning from the sky at an enemy indoors that he can't see. So what then, the skink swims around in a castle moat muttering prayers while a small rain cloud gathers in the castle's great hall and starts shooting dudes?
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PostSubject: Re: Spells and Line of Sight   Wed 28 Jan 2009 - 16:56

#2, LOS should be needed for this spell, there are expections and those excpetions are noted as radius spells.
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PostSubject: Re: Spells and Line of Sight   Today at 19:22

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