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Ethlorien
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PostSubject: Dwarf DP   Mon 12 Jan 2009 - 11:56

Okay, so here's a DP I came up with some time ago. Me, I'm not a fan of dwarves to begin with so I thought this might be a good DP to create. Personally, I find if you try making rules for something you love - it ends up being waaay overpowered. Anyway...

The big reason is - as I mentioned in another thread - I may be throwing Aenur into one of our games so we thought it might be fun to have an opposing warband fielding this stubborn fellow.

Comments on him would be welcome. I have one Dwarf Mini so I'm going to have to cut his axe off him (yes, it's the red plastic fellow from Hero Quest). That's a side project, let's work on the rules now if we can.



Gorri Thunderfist

Hire Fee: 120gold crowns to hire, 50 gold crowns upkeep.

May be Hired: Mercenaries, Pit Fighters, Dwarf Treasure Hunters

Rating: Gorri adds +100 points to a warband’s rating.

M3 WS5 BS3 S4 T5 W2 I3 A2+2 Ld10

Weapons/Armour: None

Special Rules:

Hard to Kill, Hard Head, Hate Orcs and Goblins, Grudge, Tough as Nails, Born Fighter, Determined, Loves a Good Fight

Hard to Kill: Dwarfs are tough, resilient individuals who can only be taken out of action on a roll of 6 instead of 5-6 when rolling on the injury chart. Treat a 1-2 as knocked down, 3-5 as stunned, and a 6 as out of action.

Hard Head: Dwarfs ignore the special rule for maces, clubs, etc. They are not easy to knock out!

Hate Orcs and Goblins: Gorri hates Orcs and Goblins.

Grudge: Gorri doesn’t like elves, Gorri won’t work with elves. An elven warband, or a warband that employs an Elf cannot hire Gorri.

Tough as Nails: Gorri is as tough as nails and doesn’t take any guff from anyone. His skin is thick like leather and his body is covered in a thousand scars from a thousand battles. Treat Gorri as though he were wearing Light Armour (6+ save) that can never be modified.

Born Fighter: Gorri doesn’t like weapons. He trusts only his fists and lives for the sound of flesh crunching beneath them. Aside from his fists, Gorri has no qualms about putting his hard head to good use in a fight. Gorri doesn’t suffer any penalties for fighting unarmed. He has a total of 4 attacks [2 base, +1 for a second hand weapon (his fist) , and a fourth for his head-butt attack].

Determined: Gorri loves a good fight and will stop at nothing to get one. Gorri does not suffer All Alone tests, nor is he affected by Fear (though he does not cause it).

Loves a Good Fight: Money is nice, but fighting is better! If you keep Gorri happy, he’ll stick around for awhile. Nothing keeps Gorri happy like a good fight. For every warrior Gorri knocks out, his upkeep fee before the next battle will be 5 gold crowns less. Reversely, if your warband routs or loses the battle, Gorri will demand an extra 10 gold crowns just to put up with a bunch of wusses.

Skills: Combat Master, Step Aside, Sprint, Lightning Reflexes, Dodge, Mighty Blow, Pit Fighter, Resilient.
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Mon 12 Jan 2009 - 14:15

Hmm... I like the variable upkeep fee. I might lower the base upkeep a bit... but that would be before I experimented with him in battle. It could be that he does indeed kill enough to take that total down.

Of course, any warband other than dwarfs would have a hard time getting him into battle; he won't move across the board as fast as the others. Makes taking him in other bands a possible issue.

But, without having played him, I think the initial write up looks good to me... (And I'm another elf fan... Very Happy )
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Mon 12 Jan 2009 - 16:16

Well I don't know much about rules but some fluff would be nice...I do like the fact that he doesn't use weapons though, sounds like a proper nutjob! Smile
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Ethlorien
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Mon 12 Jan 2009 - 16:55

Yeah, I had some fluff for a while - but dropped it to concentrate on the stats themselves. I'm sure I've got it around here somewhere...
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Mon 23 Feb 2009 - 10:39

Sounds like he's crazy, slayer crazy, and the perfect model for a barefisted slayer crazy slayer... Star Player Grim Ironjaw
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Mon 23 Feb 2009 - 19:06

Comparison by the numbers:
stat
cost
M
WS
S
T
W
I
A
8
Aenur
150*
5*
8*
6*
3
2
7
3*
8
Gorri
120*
3*
5
5*
6*
2
3
4*
10*
*Affected by Skills or abilities

Shared Skills: Step Aside, Sprint, Lightning Reflexes, Dodge, Mighty Blow, Combat Master
Aenur Specials: Swordsman, Strike to Injure, 2+ to hit, crit on 5+, parry
Gorri Specials: Pit Fighter, Resilient, 6+ Ward Save, Dwarf Injury Table

To me it seems like Gorri is overpowered. If you look at the comparison above, the disparities which stand out are in movement, toughness, and initiative.
Movement: With sprint, Gorri moves 9". That's plenty fast enough to keep him with any army. M3 with sprint basically equals M4. Aenur moves 15" with sprint. This is exceptional, and can help with securing objectives. However, with his low defensive stats, he's going to have to stay with the army or die, so this isn't such a great bonus.
Toughness: This is the big one. T3 vs T6 in combat. I can't speak for anyone else, but facing T6 is an enormous pain. Aenur is a glass cannon. Gorri has the same firepower with tremendous defense. This is a huge difference as Gorri can wade his way through an entire warband of S4 models by himself.
Initiative: Low initiative can be really bad. High initiative is mostly a waste. Not much of a difference here.

In my mind, Gorri is many times over a better deal than Aenur. He has no weakness! The natural dwarven low movement is more than compensated through sprint, and his initiative is average. He's virtually immune to psychology and even has a ward save. He also has three(!) speed skills for a dwarf. Aenur has one strength skill as an elf, which seems more reasonable. I say, if you're going to make a DP, make it "in character." Aenur feels like an elf. He'll charge and get the first strike, and he'll probably kill his target. But if he fails to dodge missile fire or he fails to kill all his close combat opponents, he's going down due to his paltry defenses. Make Gorri feel like a dwarf. As he currently stands, his stats could represent an orc DP, a saurus DP, a Ghoul DP, etc. Get rid of sprint: Gorri needs a weakness. Let that weakness be mobility. Get rid of dodge. Why does he have dodge with T5 against shooting and OOA on 6's only? He's already ridiculously difficult to hurt with shooting.

I do really like his "Tough as Nails" and "Loves a Good Fight" rules. Those are the two things that really do a good job of making him feel like a legendary dwarf in my mind.

That being said, I believe Aenur is an incredibly bad deal. 150 gold for a glass cannon with basically 150 gold upkeep since you need to pay full price for any battle he fights in. Perhaps Gorri is closer to balanced for his cost, and it is Aenur who is very off target.

(Also, "Combat Master" skill already makes Gorri immune to All Alone tests, which makes half of the Determined ability redundant).

Please take my critique with a grain of salt. I think it's great that you're making your own DP dwarf! These are just the concerns that come to mind.
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Lanyssa Ryssyll
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Tue 24 Feb 2009 - 2:38

I'm agree with identity, I'm a dwarf player, and I know T5 + Resilient is a very powerful combination.
You gave him sprint and lightning reflexes, so now what a monster !!! Okay, Aenur is a powerful guy, but with some crossbows, he's vulnerable enough to take him OoA... but here, it seems that Gorri will kill 'em all ! Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Tue 24 Feb 2009 - 3:15

There was a Dwarven Warrior, forgive me for not remembering his name [imminent senility AGAIN Suspect ], who spent long years chained in a High Elf Prison. The imprisonment quite unhinged the Old Guy. When he finally was rescued, his weapon of choice was the chains that had for so long held him in captivity.

For the "weapon" & mini, I'd use a Slayer [one of the Blood Bowl Guys would be cool] with the chain wrapped around each fist & a length hanging loosely between. For a Special Attack: he foregoes his other attacks; if he hits, he has wrapped the chain around his opponents neck & strangles him/her/it. The details of the strangulation I'm sure you can work out better than moi, although you might consider limiting the attack to man sized or smaller opponents.

How's that for a bit of cool or not background?
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Tue 24 Feb 2009 - 7:41

Hey folks,

Sorry - been so busy at work lately (they've been making me earn my paycheck!) I hadn't noticed the replies to this thread.

@Identity - Hey, thanks for all the info. I appreciate that you took the time to consider him. Hmm, he certainly still needs some work, I see. I think perhaps a stat lowering would be in order and re-adjust / drop some of his abilities perhaps. Like I said in my OP - personally, I'm not a fan of dwarves. But this was a fun one to come up with. I'll keep working on him.

@Deaf - That is a cool character! Tried googling him but to no avail. Love the chain idea.

Hmm - I could just write a scenario around him too - two warbands arguing and accidently tip Gorri's beer in a tavern outside Mordheim. Then it's a case of seeing which warband can outlast Gorri's drunken rage! Smile

But seriously, a little more work on his is needed (which I expected).

Thanks all!
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Tue 24 Feb 2009 - 12:04

DeafNala wrote:
There was a Dwarven Warrior, forgive me for not remembering his name [imminent senility AGAIN Suspect ], who spent long years chained in a High Elf Prison. The imprisonment quite unhinged the Old Guy. When he finally was rescued, his weapon of choice was the chains that had for so long held him in captivity.

For the "weapon" & mini, I'd use a Slayer [one of the Blood Bowl Guys would be cool] with the chain wrapped around each fist & a length hanging loosely between. For a Special Attack: he foregoes his other attacks; if he hits, he has wrapped the chain around his opponents neck & strangles him/her/it. The details of the strangulation I'm sure you can work out better than moi, although you might consider limiting the attack to man sized or smaller opponents.

How's that for a bit of cool or not background?

He was based on the Grim Ironjaw mini from my earlier post. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Tue 24 Feb 2009 - 12:54

Rules/Stats: I'd say, drop the Dodge and Lightning Reflexes. 'Sprint' fits with him, but too many speed skills seems too... Elven. Maybe give him the Dwarf Skill 'Thick Skull', so he has a natural 3+ save helmet.

If he is Aenur's other half, I suggest you skip the idea of rehiring him. Just like aenur, he'll never stay in the same spot for too long, but prefers to move along.

I'd love to see him involving bugman's or something... maybe if you discard a case of Bugman's Ale, you can reroll the Iniative dice to find him.
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Ethlorien
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Tue 24 Feb 2009 - 13:52

I like the Bugman's idea, Styro. Or, forget crowns or wyrdstone, maybe you have to pay him in kegs of Bugman's!

Good point about dropping the rehire business, too. I tend not to like DPs or whatnot that are good for only one game, but yeah, if he's going to be Aenur's opposite, then it's something to consider.
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Tue 24 Feb 2009 - 20:00

Bugmans: Maybe it reduces Gorri's hiring fee by 1D6x10gc. Law of averages makes it a losing venture to BUY the Bugmans for the purpose of hiring him, but you get more money than you would selling it (if you already had a case, that is.)

Rehiring: Someone mentioned that the cost of Aenur being quite high... well, what if instead of fighting randomly (which can be fun), what if 1 player controlled Aenur, and the other controlled Gorri? They get the fun of playing with massive DPs, with none of the cost. If playing with more than 2 players, add more Elf and Dwarf DPs (Maybe the Dark Elf from Lustria, and Kromwell the Chaos Dwarf from Sartosa. Ignore the 'Dark' and 'Chaos' part for this scenario.) The elf vs. dwarf would be divided randomly, but could also be based on warbands. (Dwarf Treasure Hunters are more likely to ally with Gorri. Dark Elves are not likely to ally with Aenur... alternatively, make it Dwarves vs. Dark Elves, and have a Dark Aenur.)

If you have an odd number of players, and you need someone who's not a Dwarf or Elf, either stick that player with an Ogre Bodyguard (the bouncer), or (And this is a shameless plug, I know), stick him with Wang Peng Li, from Sartosa (he's in the 'Last Orders' special enounters... when controlled by a player, he moves normally on a 2+ each turn, and a random direction on a D6 roll of 1.) Compared to Aenur & Gorri, Wang is a bit weak, so either give him an extra boost (+1 Attack & Tough maybe), or give him to the highest rated player. Or, if you have a WEAK player, stick 'em with 'Krushj the Anchorman' from Sartosa, who I'd consider at least as strong as Aenur. That's one tough ogre bouncer!
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PostSubject: Re: Dwarf DP   Today at 1:34

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