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 Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!

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Do you find the name 'Death Squads' offensive or innapropriate for a game?
YES, most definitely!
32%
 32% [ 9 ]
Yes, after I was explain what a Death Squad is.
11%
 11% [ 3 ]
Not really... it is a game.
29%
 29% [ 8 ]
NO! Sounds cool!
28%
 28% [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 28
 

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Mordheimer
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PostSubject: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 3:17

Howdy! As many of you know, DaBank and I are working on a 40k-based skirmish game. It is not Mordheim in space, nor Necromunda revised, nor updated Space Hulk, nor modernized Gorkamorka. Yet, it is all of that... and some more. It borrows elements from all those games, plus some of our own, to create a balanced skirmish game based on the rich Warhammer 40k universe. If you play Mordheim (duh!) you got 85% of it down, and the rest are little details.

At first, we were working with the provisional title of 'Project X'. Now we have the working title 'Death Squads'. While the name sounds nice, not only it does NOT convey what the game is about (is not about Squads that go killing), but as it has been pointed out in our reality the term 'death squad' has been attached to groups of organized militia that terrorizes populations. Death squads have been used for centuries, but it has been in the past 75 years that they have gotten more and more brutal. Without going to gory details, to some people may bring memories of WWII's concentration camps or recent conflicts in Africa regarding blood diamonds.

We would like to move past of what maybe conceive by error as the support of human rights violations game ( affraid yikes!) to something that would indicate a futuristic military miniatures game. Of course, this is still a glorification of violence with toy soldiers, but I like the game. Just like 40k's slogan... 'In the 41st Millenium, there is only war', certain things can not be avoided. Others... can. I would like suggestions on a new name. What we would like on it?

  • Warhammer 40k related (not copyrighted i.e. Adeptus Astartes)
  • Convey a broad sense (cover many races, i.e. humans, Orks, Tau, etc.)
  • Convey message of small scale (i.e. Squad)
  • Convey message of warfare (i.e. Death)
  • Should appeal to masses (i.e. non-offensive)
The game is NOT set in a specific region, planet, city etc... so things like Necromunda (a Hive City) or Mordheim (a City) would not work. Once we get suggestions, we MAY change it at some point. I would have to redo LOTS of stuff, but that is life. Very Happy

Thanks in advance! I'm looking forward to see what you guys come up with...

EDIT: Visit http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/sci-fi-wargames-f16/photos-of-our-game-t1006.htm for original posts on the topic.


Last edited by Mordheimer on Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 6:45; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Add URL)
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 4:26

Actually, having just started to follow the objections to "Death Squad" as a name for game, I was rather surprised at the fuss. Let moi explain.

Considering GW shows about the same sensitivity as a rock, I found that their renaming of Mordheim to avoid offending our German speakiing brethren a refreshing break in their normal M.O.. Afterall they have a game named Inquisitor & Witch Hunters as war bands/armies, both conjuring up images of bigotry, torture, & inhumanity on an epic scale. Humanities ruling body in 40K comes off as a fanatically fascist state that forceably promotes the worship of a corpse whose revered wisdom & insight didn't include setting up a line of succession, & to whom thousands of gifted lives are sacrificed on a daily basis. The ultimate goal of this regime is the extermination of all life forms other than homo sapiens & even their continued existence is based on mindlessly following offical dogma.

When I think of 40K's "rich" background, Graham McNeil's [this guy probably thinks Joe Stalin was cool Suspect ] story of the First Armageddon War. The culmination of the story was that the heroic defenders were sterilized & forced into slave labor camps for the remainder of their lives to keep the chaos incursion a secret. I find that both offense & horrifying not merely that a modern mind that is the product of a civilized society could conjure up such an obscenity, but that a gaming company would publish it as part of the image their product projects.

SO...with my little rant in mind, Death Squad seems a rather innocent name for a game set in a TRULY vile setting. Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 5:13

I have to agree with Deaf. Bearing in mind the general 40K background, Death Squads is not that much worse.

Still, I was thinking about some other names... Perhaps Suicide Squads would fit the theme nicely, or something with Commando...
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 5:20

I do find the name inappropriate, not just because it is insensitive (you pointed out quite rightly that GWs fluff itself is insensitive in the extreme) - i can live with that- but because it just does not describe the game you want to make. Even a "cool" name should avoid giving completely false impressions.
What the game is actually about is skirmish and small unit actions in the 40K universe, so how about something with Commando / Special Forces / Ranger / Spetznaz / Brandenburger / SAS or some other military term associated with such action in it?
I am really bad at coming up with cool names, so i´ll avoid proposing something like "40K Commando" or "Dirty 40.000" Wink .
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 5:22

Horatius wrote:
Dirty 40.000

lol!
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 6:18

You could just increase the level of inhumane-ness (Lightning-War, Storm-War (Blitzkrieg in English)), until it becomes ironic. Or you could go for something that shows the level of independence afforded to such scouting troops (Mercenary, Gang-Soldier). Gang-Soldier's my favourite. Very Happy


EDIT: as long as the baddies are the sickos it doesn't matter how inhumane it is. Tolkien didn't agree with Saruman's breeding Orcs with humans.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 6:39

@ Horatius: I agree with you! I don’t like the name 100% either because it lacks that certain ‘umph’ that delivers the idea and concept of the game. I believe we need something that depicts a small, yet deadly, military unit. How about 300 40k? Nah... Any military history nuts know of anyone? It does not have to be modern armies; it could be ancient Greek, Roman, Mongolian or Egyptian!


@ DeafNala: You bring excellent points. Very Happy All miniature wargaming kindda 'romanticizes' war. Some just attempt to recreate times, events and/or famous battles. While they stick to the facts, many of the horrific consequences are omitted and/or minimized. I have seen many young players of 25mm WWII games who can not really comprehend the Holocaust as a whole. Other games, like 40k, create a make-believe setting based on 'real concepts' of human owns inhumanity. Some of these games have complete disregard to life... killing someone have no consequences.

GW is specially adept on the ladder type of game. Their Universes are brutal, to say the least. In 40k, human life has no value what so ever. As mentioned several times in the Imperial Guard Codex (rulebook); The Imperium's currency is human life, and they spend it carelessly. The worship of the Emperor as a god is twisted to the point of human sacrifice, abuse and torture. The whole game story is based on intolerance and abuse of the weak. Mordheim (as well as WHFB) is much like that, in a 'medieval' setting.

Regardless, we play the game because we like miniature gaming and we... like the system. I love Space Marines, even if I only play Necrons and Tyranids. I get a kick out of the twisted vision of a hopeless future, understanding that is not real. If presented with the opportunity to makeup how an Inquisitor would go on to ask 'Honey, how was school today?' I would probably laugh my head off when writing several pages describing (in gruesome) details torturous methods of extracting information. Trust me; I would vent all my frustrations... I send thousands of dollars in my three kids’ education and all they can come up in a daily basis for this question is "Nothing". GRRRR! Twisted Evil The thought of Exterminatus (the destruction of a whole planet) after decades of war, just in case there was any Xenos hiding is just too funny! Especially when the Xenos survive!

When confronted with real-life situations, I'm extremely sensitive. I'm from Puerto Rico and can care less for New York City (USA). But the thought of the destruction of the Twin Towers (on the terrorist attacks of September 11th, 2001) makes my spine shivers... and the thought of all Firefighters and Police Officers involved in the rescue makes me cry every single time. This is nothing, compared to an Exterminatus. I stop going to Church because of my strong position against priest on the military (the sheer hypocrisy)… yet 40k is based on a militant religion (ohh, the contradiction!) The abuse, torture and terrorism linked to blood diamonds are powerful enough for me to detest jewelry in general. Naming a game Death Squads seems pretty odd…. Until you realize is just a game.

Some people, especially non-gamers, may not realize that. Having a less 'controversial' name is aimed to them. This way it would be easier for players (us) to teach the game and make them join the Dark Side... a crap! I think I messed it up at the end! Razz


Keep the comments and suggestions coming! eeexcellent!
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 12:26

How about 'Close-Combat, the game of total, close-up devastation!'.

Off the top of my head elites:
Voltigeurs (Napoleonic skirmishers)
Light Companies (English Voltigeurs)
Riflemen (elite Light Companies, cream of the cream)
Hoplites (Ancient Greek spearmen elite, very good at holding the line)

Sorry for the small list, I study earlier history.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 12:54

How about something like Assault or Skirmish or Attack or something like that? I like single word titles, though having said that I also like Horatius' idea of Special Forces, maybe it would be good to have 40k in there as well (not 40,000 though)
Assault 40k?
Skirmish 40k?
Special Forces 40k?
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 12:55

I think Assault sounds good. Nice and simple.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 14:12

I have been thinking about a title while driving and came up with some ideas:

When i think about 40K and small unit actions it reminds me of the Gaunt´s ghosts novels, so how about "Ghost squads 40K" or something similar?

The kind of missions you seem to be aiming at would certainly be "Black Ops" in the real world, so how about "Black Ops - the game of Warhammer 40K skirmish actions" ? Maybe that one is too long Very Happy .

And the last one: " Stosstrupp 40K" to fit into the elite unit theme - it has a nice germanic ring to it fitting into the 40K universe quite well Cool .

I hope that´s some food for thoughts or you aspiring game designers out there Wink .
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 14:13

Ghost-Squads! Ghost Squads! Ghost Squads!
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 17:11

@ Deaf Nala: Excellent points and brilliantly explained (as usual). Thanks Deaf. I want to emphasize that I agree with everything you wrote, but I would like to make one little addition. The 40K universe, besides all its harshness and "horrible" pictures, remains so very fantastic, that i personally have not so many problems with it. It depicts horror, yes, but it does so in a ridiculously fantastic world (I mean... "Space Orks"... think about it.). I would have more problems if I read lines like the ones you mentioned in a WWII game for instance.

This being said, the title "Warhammer 40.000" does not remind us of ANY historical event. The date being set to such an "astronomic" number, that it alienates the reader and makes it extra clear we are in a SPACE-FANTASY world.

So i think the game these guys are creating should follow this pattern and have a title that has NOTHING to do with reality.
As Mordheimer said correctly, it will make it easier to convince non-tabletop people to give it a go.

Now my ideas on the title suggestions:

I think that "Ghost Squads" was a pretty good one. Although I don't know if you plan on including many 40K races in your game. If yes, I think it MIGHT be a little misleading as Orks for example have tactics very much contrary to stealthy infiltration as suggested by "Ghost Squads". But that is really your call.

Someone brought up the word "Gang". I think this is also very good. Gang spells "small warbands", "skirmish", "gang war", "Necromunda-style" etc...

I think "Stosstrupp 40K" is okay-ish. It does have a germanic ring to it, but to me it screams "Wehrmacht". I don't want to beat a dead horse, and I think it CAN be used as a name, but I am sure we can do better than that.

How about something more abstract? (and variations thereof...)

Crossfire 40K
One Must Fall
Firefights
Manhunt
Hostile Grounds
Bloodstreets
Shadow Grounds
(there is a computer game with that title but it was a flop, so you can safely use the name I guess).

or if you insist on having a tactical entity in it:

Gang Grounds 40K
Gangfight 40K
Deep Strike 40K

Furthermore I really suggest you do NOT use any real-life special
commando designations. It just feels unprofessional. Very much so. I
would NEVER even look at a space-fantasy game called something like
S.W.A.T, SAS, GIGN, KSK, Cobra, Spetsnatz or whatever.

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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 17:29

Out of those I really like crossfire 40k and hostile grounds.
Totally agree with everything you put Tom except that, on a similar note to what you wrote about Ghost Squads, anything with the word Gang in it will really not represent all the races eg an Inquisitorial retinue, a squad of Tau, a detachment of marines, etc. All these are a lot more disciplined than what I think of when I think of the word gang...
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Fri 26 Dec 2008 - 18:18

Gangs would not represent the whole 40K Universie.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sat 27 Dec 2008 - 0:18

Nice ideas everyone! KEEP THEM COMING! Very Happy My comments on some of the names... please do not be discouraged.

  1. Gang Grounds 40K: Gangs not representative of the 40k Universe
  2. Gangfight 40K: Gangs not representative of the 40k Universe
  3. Deep Strike 40K: Has potential, but the name reminds me of Space Marines Drop Pods!
  4. Crossfire 40K: Interesting.
  5. One Must Fall: Does not convey game concept (not about killing a single model)
  6. Firefights: Interesting, even when conveys incomplete game concept.
  7. Manhunt: Does not convey game concept (not about capturing a single model)
  8. Hostile Grounds: Getting warmer!
  9. Bloodstreets: Fights are not necessary on the streets.
  10. Shadow Grounds: Not bad.
  11. Ghost Squads: Does not convey game concept (not about paranormal... who you gonna call?)
  12. Black Ops: Eye catching... but not the right concept.
  13. Stosstrupp 40K: No... too much of a mouthful!
  14. Assault 40k: Near the target.
  15. Skirmish 40k: Nope... too simplistic.
  16. Special Forces 40k: Almost there... but incomplete concept.
  17. Voltigeurs: No... too much of a mouthful!
  18. Light Companies: Incorrect concept.
  19. Riflemen: Incorrect concept.
  20. Hoplites: No... too much of a mouthful!
  21. Dirty 40,000: LOL! Naughty sexual games!
Of course, the comments above are my own opinion. Once something nice is found, we would discuss it and see. Hmmm... I have few suggestions... and I'm not thinking too much about them!

  • Deadly Crossfire
  • Death Strike 40k
  • Plausible Deniability (useful when talking to GW legal trolls!)
  • Shadow Squads
  • Surgical Strike (better than Surgical Penetration! affraid )
  • Squad Wars
Lets see...


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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sat 27 Dec 2008 - 0:32

How about Forlorn Hope? This term refers to those unfortunates who are chosen to be the first into the breech. Suspect
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sat 27 Dec 2008 - 1:01

Battle Lines?
Soldiers of Fortune?
Squad Drill?
WH40k: Tactics?
Tactica Imperialis?
Tom Clancy's Great-big-carnifex-of-maiming?

Ok, the last one is a joke. The rest are random things that were inspired by the idea of squad-based combat.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sat 27 Dec 2008 - 3:35

Crossfire Assault Smile

I like Shadow Grounds, or Hostile Grounds, but my new favourite is Forlorn Hope. It sounds really cool, it describes the situation of small scale skirmishers in the 40K universe pretty well, and it's a name noone could find legally offensive (as there is no allusion to the original 40K in it).
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sat 27 Dec 2008 - 4:05

catferret wrote:

Tom Clancy's ....

LOL!

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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sat 27 Dec 2008 - 4:19

I think the whole "brutal 40K setting" is fine as long as it's with invented names. I.e., you get a lot of gore, and maybe even the same general concepts as in real life, but it's the same as with any gory thing (movie, game) - it's your decision if you want it or not.

As soon as there are words, phrases, symbols which are actually from real (recent) history, it stops being funny. I think enough has been said about Death Squads; it's sometimes hard for non-Germans to understand just what kind of emotions even mentioning those words brings up. You have to remember, up until the soccer world cup 2006 (err, it was that year, wasn't it? Wink ), it was almost inappropriate to even show the German flag in Germany, aside from official events. Most Germans (maybe not the younger ones, don't know) do not really feel comfortable with their own country; and loathing anything regarding the 1930s/40s is drilled deep into us.

But that aside, how about (and if I use any term that's meaningful to any other country, disregard please ):

Death Commandos
Commandos
Platoons
Night's Dawn (maybe (c) or (tm) - there's a book with that title + "Trilogy" Wink )
Star Troopers ( Schtroumpf )
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sat 27 Dec 2008 - 7:14

There are a few possibilities out there with some tinkering.

I like the Tactica Imperilias as it is very Gothic (40k Language) but it might convey only an IG perspective.
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sat 27 Dec 2008 - 7:48

Tactica Imperialis is the name of a great 40k book.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/product.asp?prod=60040181011&type=Book
Crying or Very sad It was a great name...

I like Death Commandos... Karate
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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sun 28 Dec 2008 - 5:15

Covert Ops?
Commando Ops?
Tactial Ops

could always use the planets name its based on, kind of like mordheim is the city?

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PostSubject: Re: Help! We would like suggestions for 40-Based skirmish name!   Sun 28 Dec 2008 - 6:42

Death Squads? Oh, right, we already tried that one... Razz

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