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StyrofoamKing
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 7 Mar 2009 - 10:31

Recruitment: Having the Master Pressganger skill is very helpful indeed (raises the chance of recruiting a dead on 2+ instead of 4+.) Also, scenarios like 'Press Gang' is a great way to fatten the rank with cheap meat shields.

Confusion: My apologizes. Tim's rules are absolutely brilliant, but he never did have a set rules for multiplayer, making it a bit... muddled. I don't seem to have helped much. From now on, that applies to 'Multi-players'. I'll try to make a correction/errata soon.

Undead: Willing members join the Cursed. Unwilling become Bloated.

Manning the Cannons: To me, it'd most likely go to the Cursed or the Skeleton Mates. Gibbets could do it, but it seems less fluffy.

Fear checks: I played a Skaven good two weeks ago. They passed nearly EVERY fear check: except for their leader, who didn't pass a fear check in two games. Definitely not a 'lead by example' kind of rat.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 7 Mar 2009 - 22:08

Swabbie Errata: Hopes this clears up any confusion. If not, let me know!

~~~~~~

In Sartosa, most Pirate warbands can ‘recruit’ new members to join the adventuresome life of a buccaneer. The following rule applies to all new warbands unless stated otherwise.

All Hands on Deck: In less desperate times, pirates would only recruit humans. But now that all Sartosa is ablaze, nearly anyone will do. Pirates may now recruit any non-Large, non-animal model they come across. The exception is that non-Undead warbands cannot recruit Undead models, and no one may recruit demons. Also, unlike the old Pirate Warband, which could only Kidnap henchmen if they won the scenario, warbands may now attempt to recruit Crew/Swabbies from any game they have played in. These changes only applies when in a Sartosa campaign setting; in any other setting, Warbands may only capture Humans and models of the same race, and during matches they’ve won. See the ‘Pirate Warband’ by Tim Huckelbery for more details, when playing in Non-Sartosa settings.

Kidnapped/Captured Heroes: If an enemy human Hero rolled up the Captured result (D66 rolls of 61 or 62), he may be ‘offered’ one opportunity to join the pirate crew.

As an alternative to exchanging/ ransoming the captured Hero back to their original Warband (or selling him to slavers), the Pirate Captain can instead add the captured enemy to the ship’s crew as follows. Both players roll 2D6, with the Pirate player adding the Captain’s Leadership and the enemy player adding the Leadership of the captured Hero. If either side won that game, it may add +1 to its score. If the Pirate player’s result is higher, the Hero renounces his old ways for the life of the high seas! She or he joins the Crew, either starting a new Crew group or joining an existing one if it has four models or less. There is no extra cost to add him to a group which has accumulated experience points, and any equipment or weapons he had are immediately sold off to buy him the proper weapons and armour to match his new unit in an even swap. His skills and characteristics are changed to those of a starting Crewman, or to match those of his new crewmates if joining an existing group. Otherwise, the Hero has resisted the siren’s song of the sea, and is forced to become a Swabbie (see Swabbies below). He is stripped of his equipment and weapons; these are handed out as the player desires. He does retain any skills and keeps his original characteristics, but can only be re-armed with the weapons listed in the Swabbie equipment list.

In multiplayer games, roll to see which opposing player has captured your hero (meaning, they will not be taken by yourself or your allies):

1-3 Finders Keepers! – The Kidnapped model is taken by the opposing warband that took him out of action, and may be recruited by a Pirate Warband, (even if the player routs.) If the Kidnapped model was not taken out of action by an opposing player (fall damage, killed by an NPC, friendly fire, etc), he is picked up by a random opponent.
4-6 To the Victors, the Spoils – The Kidnapped model is taken by the opposing warband that won the scenario (in most cases, the last warband standing). If your warband won the scenario, he is captured by the opposing warband that lasted on the board longest. If more than one opponent was on the board when the game ended, the Captured hero goes to a random opponent that did not rout.

Kidnapped Henchmen: Every time a Henchmen is taken Out of Action during the game and then lost from their original Warband for good (i.e. a 1-2 was rolled for them post-game) he/she also has a chance of joining up with an opposing pirate warband. Roll another D6 for each ‘dead’ henchmen: on a roll of 4+, the model is Kidnapped! Once a warband has captured a henchmen, the Pirate player can make a Leadership test to see if they will join, exactly as above, by both players rolling 2D6 and adding it to the Captain’s and the Henchman’s Leadership. Again, the warband that won the scenario receives +1 to its roll.

In multiplayer games, roll 1D6 to see which opponent has captured your ‘dead’ henchmen (meaning, they will not be taken by yourself or your allies):

1-3 Finders Keepers! – The Kidnapped model is taken by the opposing warband that took him out of action, and may be recruited by a Pirate Warband (even if the player routs.) If the Kidnapped model was not taken out of action by an opposing player (fall damage, killed by an NPC, friendly fire, etc), he is picked up by a random opponent.
4-6 To the Victors, the Spoils – The Kidnapped model is taken by the opposing warband that won the scenario (in most cases, the last warband standing). If your warband won the scenario, he is kidnapped by the opposing warband that lasted on the board longest. If more than one opponent was on the board when the game ended, the Captured hero goes to a random opponent that did not rout.


Hard Labor: You may choose to make a captured model a Swabbie, without rolling to see if he joins the Crew. Captured NPCs will only become Swabbies, not ‘Crew’.

NON-PIRATE WARBANDS & SWABBIES
Non-pirate, non-Sartosa warbands (EX. Human Mercenaries, Witch Hunters, etc) may not normally recruit Swabbies after matches. However, certain scenarios and Exploration results reward warbands with Swabbies. They may NOT be recruited into the Crew or similar henchmen group, but follow the stats below. No warband may have more than 5 Swabbies. However, should a Non-Pirate Warbands receive a Captured Hero or Kidnapped Henchmen (see above), the Non-Pirate warband may still strip the equipment from the henchman/hero they have captured.

~~~~~
didn't repost the Swabbie stats and combat rules. I can if need be, but the models themselves haven't changed.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 9:11

Trained Monkey
20+ 1D6gc, Rare 9* May be hired by any Warband
*(Rare 11 in any Setting other than Sartosa, Khemri, Relics, Lustria, Border Town Burning, and Ind.)

While there are some monkeys, apes, and similar primates out there that are as savage and strong as a wardog, most pirates are drawn to the smaller variety. Like any good pirate, they are expert climbers, thieves, and run any from nearly everything. They follow all of the rules for Wardogs (the equipment), with the following changes:

Code:
. . . . . . M  WS .BS. S. .T . W. .I . A . Ld
Monkey. . . 5 . 2. 3  3 .2. . 1 . 5 . 1. .4

Weapons: The Monkey fights weaponless in hand to hand combat without penalty. Also, he may throw Improvised Missiles at opponents in the Shooting Phase (treat as ‘Belaying Pins’. May not be looted or given to another warrior.)

Go ‘fer!: Monkeys can be very useful at picking up small items. They may pick up any Valuable or Wyrdstone shard, although they may only carry one at a time. They may not carry heavy objects (Cargo, Treasure chests), nor may they search buildings for hidden items. As they can only carry one such item at a time, they must hand it off to warrior in your warband before they can fetch and carry another item. Neither the monkey nor the handed-off hero receives Experience for the Shard/Valuable found.

Climbers: Monkeys are brilliant climbers, and count as having the Speed Skills ‘Scale Sheer Surfaces’ and ‘Acrobat.’

Largely Insignificant: Trained Monkeys count towards the number of warriors in a warband but are not considered for Rout tests - neither for determining the initial warband size nor as lost models.


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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 9:16

Woot! (or should I say 'Hoot!")
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 9:20

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Trained Monkey
20+ 1D6gc, Rare 9* May be hired by any Warband
*(Rare 11 in any Setting other than Sartosa, Khemri, Relics, Lustria, Border Town Burning, and Ind.)

Nice thing about including special availability for other settings. But how about Ind (maybe even BTB)? Are you sure that they should have the same raised rarity value as Mordheim? The Mordheim rulebook itself even mentions trained monkies from the Southlands as samples for alternate wardog models in the miscellaneous equipment section. How about this instead:

*(Rare 11 in the following settings: Lustria, Kharak Azgal, Moussellin.)

I'm sure I messed up the spelling of the last two settings..

My monkeys (painted by Tom) totally dig this. Smile


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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 9:56

Cianty--those are great monkeys!

Otherwise you seem to have misread what is written. Monkey's are rare 9 in BTB and Ind. Rare 11 in any setting not listed.

Now why would they be rare 11 in Lustria? Laughing
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 10:44

Von Kurst wrote:
Cianty--those are great monkeys!

Otherwise you seem to have misread what is written. Monkey's are rare 9 in BTB and Ind. Rare 11 in any setting not listed.

Now why would they be rare 11 in Lustria? Laughing
js


Embarassed Uhm... yeah. That makes 10 idiot points for me. cyclops

Ok then just see that post as a reason to show off those cool monkeys. Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 12:25

The Southlands is a good one, though. I forgot about them. I was hoping you'd agree with Border Town Burning, considering I don't know how many monkeys are in Northern Cathay (although, there's probably enough in Middle and Southern Cathay to make them pretty common... a friend of mine has visited temples in China and regaled me of stories of tourist-attacking monkies.)

Lustria was another 'unsure' one. Monkeys are VERY South American, but I wasn't sure how many mammals were in Lustria. I thought I'd give them the benefit of the doubt, and assume there was some sort of primate either in the continent or the surrounding islands.

Cianty: Definitely worth it; those are some sweet lookin' monkeys! thumbsup
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 13:03

Yeah, I also thought Lustria was probably too far north to justify monkeys. I don't know. I'm not very familiar with the Lizardmen background so someone who is should speak up and tell us.

About BTB: yes, monkeys defiantely. I mean, there are laready monkey warriors in the BTB bestiary.

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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 16:56

Great I knew I painted up my monkeys for a reason.


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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 8 Mar 2009 - 22:00

cianty wrote:
About BTB: yes, monkeys defiantely. I mean, there are laready monkey warriors in the BTB bestiary.

Sorry, never noticed them. They look fantastic. Actually, the Wang Chun Li Drunken Boxer DP was, in his prototype form, a monkey man. He was based off of the Monkey King Legends (he's called Sun Wukong in Chinese, Son Goku in Japanese.) Master and I were going to use him in the Ind campaign...

... before we abandonned it, for total lack of GW-supported fluff, knowledge of the region, and interest outside Master and myself desperate Dah, well. I hope our Athel Loren campaign will go smoother.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Mon 9 Mar 2009 - 2:39

Son Goku does ring some bells... lol

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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Mon 9 Mar 2009 - 6:52

'Cause the manga author Akira Toriyama loves legends too. He based the Dragonball character off of the old monkey king (strong fighter, monkey tail, bo staff that extends, etc.)
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 10:28

Back to Sartosa
Time of Day--
I notice the option of fighting at night in Sartosa. Would the rules for Undead fighting during the day then also apply? (Eyes the Ghosts with evil intent...) Perhaps with certain weather negating the negative effects?

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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 10:47

Er, you lost me.

Are you asking if Undead aren't affected by Darkness, or are you asking if Heat conditions don't apply at nighttime? If the latter, the heat conditions apply day and night. This is the Mediterrainian; there are some nights which would push 90 degrees. (If so, ignore the part about 'glare' and just assume that the heat bends the air itself, until visibility is compromised.) In either case, the Undead wouldn't be affected by the heat, as they are beyond such fleshly concerns.

If you're asking about other things concerning the Undead, you'll have to clarify.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Tue 10 Mar 2009 - 11:42

Just confusing myself as well. I thought the rules for Time of Day would be organized together in Relics.
Under Undead in the Warbands section--"However, during the day they will suffer a strength 4 hit at the beginning of each turn they spend in the open." I thought this sentence applied to all undead, but a closer reading reveals its only Vampires that suffer ill effects from the sun... Curses foiled again! Embarassed
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 13 Mar 2009 - 15:20

A reaction to the experimental rules section posted earlier--
"~Weather: Weather changes several times during the game. Keep track of the number of rounds that the weather has been in effect. On the third round, the weather changes on a D6 roll of 5+. On the fourth round, the weather changes on a D6 roll of 3+. On the fifth round and every round after that, the weather changes on 2+. Once the weather changes, start back at '1' for the number of rounds, and slowly build back again. Reminder: if weather makes your powder wet, it remains wet even after the weather changes, unless the weather specifically says the powder dries ('Baking Hot', 'Dry'). Note: Round 1 means after set-up, but before anyone has moved."

We've tried to play this rule when we hate the weather--pea soup fog, for example. But even though I had a copy of the post with me I doubt we've been doing it right. Definitely haven't done it every game. I have enough problem trying to keep all the necessary rules for my warband straight and they are in front of me. Usually. Nearby anyway. In the same room...

"~Searching: Whenever searching a building for treasure, cargo, whatever, all search results are presented at the END of the Movement phase."

Great!

"~Boot Hooks: Have the "-1 Strength" rule removed. They now count as a 8gc Common Spear that requires Two Hands to use. (So, it's 2gc cheaper, but cannot be used with a shield). Any model in a Non-Sartosa warband that may use a Spear may use a boat hook (the opposite is NOT true: pirate models who can use boot hooks may not use spears unless the equipment list specifically says so!)"

Why not look at the historic pirates/sailors/marines? Realize that the boarding pike is a spear and be done with it? Making the boat hook a weapon is not useful. Especially since the 'hook' part is the unique and useful element of the tool. If you could 'hook' your enemy or his shield and pull him off balance into the drink, then maybe.

"~Scenario Variation: Merchant Square- Booty Calls! Any goods found, common or rare, have the same rules for carrying as Cargo (meaning one at a time, half move, etc.) If an opened crate contains 1D3 Spears, you may instead choose to collect 1D3 Boot Hooks. Likewise, instead of finding 1D3 Nets, you may find 1D3 Norlander Nets."

Merchant Square? This scenario is found where?


"DISCOURAGED WARBANDS
Lizardmen*, Amazonian, Tomb Guardians, Revenant, BTB Cathayan Battle Monks, Merchant Caravan, Sorcerous Society, Protectorate of Sigmar, Wood Elves*, Outlaws of Stirwood, Imperial Outriders.

((*Lizardmen are forbidden for balance reasons, as the Aquatic rules favor them heavily as they are currently written (If they 'aquatic' rules were, perhaps, weakened, they might be permitted in. The Southlands are not too far from the Tilean Sea, meaning their presence wouldn't be totally inappropriate.))"

Actually the Saurus balance this out themselves because they so obviously suck around water. We play a Lustria rotation most years and Lizardmen always struggle with the water scenarios because their Suarus warriors drown easy. Aquatic is nice but T2 is a real killer. (My Lustria setting features many river scenarios in addition to Island Hopping. Its the home setting for Haunted Wreck after all...)

Thanks for the additional ideas,
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 13 Mar 2009 - 19:04

Weather: Well, a simpler version is "reroll weather after every three rounds." We've used that the version, and while it's too predictable, the results are definitely fair. In a battle between our Norse and our Nuln Gunnery school, the tide of battle can turn with a single weather roll (heh heh.)

Boot Hooks: Well, mostly 'cause Tim Hicklebury already came up with the 'Boat Hook', and had it as part of the Pirate's equipment list... it's also on the list for several models that do not have access to spears, so a cheap/shield-less spear seems a fair cop. As far as hooking shields, far too few models USE shields anyway, and I wanted it to remain a simple weapon, if that's cool. Make sense?

Merchant Square: It's a Fanatic released scenario. You can get it from the (skeleton of the) old SG site.
http://www.sg.tacticalwargames.net/fanatic/

Sauruses: Not too strong? Huh. My group was afraid of an army of sniping, impossible to reach water models. Although, I hadn't considered the low Initiative before. Hmm, I might have to reconsider it...
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 13 Mar 2009 - 20:08

Weather-well I'm sure its a reflection of the group. If your group can remember to do something that's good. I don't mind specific rules for weather changes within scenarios, the maelstrom should end for example.

If its a nice day we're not going to be too bothered about hoping it gets worse. Its a matter of taste, but I'm leaning toward playability over simulation here. We got real growly over the Relics weather, so our tolerance is a bit low.

With respect to Tim, it's a spear. Its no big. We have 3 or 4 models armed with boat hooks running around, but when we're playing they become spears, cause even the sold as 'skeleton with harpoon' looks like he's got a spear... Don't worry we won't use shields. (Nobody does) Smile

Ah, one of those! Thanks!

Did someone from your group play Lizards to test? I was lauding my nautical experience and then I thought 'oh different rules set.' We used Empire in Flames boat rules which lowers the effectiveness of bow fire vs boats since most missiles will strike the boat. With those rules ambushing Dark Elves on the river is no treat as a Lizard, let me tell you. Sort of like taking on a Swift Boat with guys with muskets.

In my first game against the Bretonnians in this campaign, we counted all shooters as moving since they were on a boat, then half way through we saw the rule that you only count cover. The Ghosts really started to yowl after that! I haven't looked at LotHS yet to compare.

Also we have hazards in the water like crocodiles. So the skinks they are not unreachable or safe. A rule like Shark Infested Waters would take care of that as well.

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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 15 Mar 2009 - 18:21

New question--
The Swordpistol. Do the skills Swordmaster and Pistolier work with it?

Thanks,
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Wed 18 Mar 2009 - 22:10

I'm going to go with yes to both. But Master is the person who came up with it, so he has the last say. (that's not a dodge... Master's here on Tom's forum! Yay!)
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 21 Mar 2009 - 6:05

Well, I have been thinking about those questions, and it strikes me the sword-pistol already is a bit good. I'd say that pistolier can be combined with it, but expert swordsman cannot.

This is both for balance, but also due to the fact that expert swordsman has been re-worded to only affect fully fledged swords, IE not similar weapons.

Even without expert swordsman they are invariably effective in the first turn.

Pistolier should be allowed though, as it will be an immensely cool conversion.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 22 Mar 2009 - 7:04

Thanks for the replies guys. I modeled it on, but at the rate that my guys are dying it may take awhile to be able to afford it.

Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 22 Mar 2009 - 20:58

Well, for your sake, I hope you pick one in a cargo crate or in the exploration.

Which begs the issue: do use the weapon, you have to take the Weapon Expert's (or whatever the CC skill is called), the Weapon Training skill, either, or both? (Obviously, the Pirate Skill 'Pistol Expertise' would let you use it too.) I'm thinking the Shooting skill makes sense, considering both normal pistols and the Sword Pistol is listed under 'Shooting Weapons'.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 22 Mar 2009 - 21:09

Pedro-he of the missing hand and leg-has taken the pirate skill Pistol Expertise to get a little boost in hand to hand since Estalians are not shooters.

My wish list is long outgrown my income. Monkeys, parrots, a sword pistol another Lads got Talent (I have 2 chances on Thursday!) Thanks for the hope.

js pirat
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Today at 0:43

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Sartosa
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