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Pfreck
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Wed 25 Feb 2009 - 4:15

I've got a question about the Human and Cathayan Pirate warbands. I see the Pirate Equipment list has access to Crossbows, but how come the Gunner Equipment list doesn't? Is this because Gunners only use Black Powder missile weapons?


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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Wed 25 Feb 2009 - 20:21

You guessed it! (Also, about 70% of the warband lists are based very closely on Tim Huckelbery's original 'Pirate Warband', including the equipment lists.)

... while I'm at it, might as well use this as a spring board for a few new rules/ideas that have popped in the last month or so. None are set in stone, but rather new thoughts to kick around and try. So far, here they are:

~Refined Powder added to Inventory list. May NOT be used with Superior Gunpowder. Cost 10gc, Rare 5.

~Estalians have 'Crossbows added back on to the Equipment list

~WHILE IN SARTOSA, any warband that has 'Crossbow' on it's equipment list as has 'Handgun' added on as well (meaning they can use them without requiring Weapons Training.)

~Weather: Weather changes several times during the game. Keep track of the number of rounds that the weather has been in effect. On the third round, the weather changes on a D6 roll of 5+. On the fourth round, the weather changes on a D6 roll of 3+. On the fifth round and every round after that, the weather changes on 2+. Once the weather changes, start back at '1' for the number of rounds, and slowly build back again. Reminder: if weather makes your powder wet, it remains wet even after the weather changes, unless the weather specifically says the powder dries ('Baking Hot', 'Dry'). Note: Round 1 means after set-up, but before anyone has moved.

~Searching: Whenever searching a building for treasure, cargo, whatever, all search results are presented at the END of the Movement phase.

~Boot Hooks: Have the "-1 Strength" rule removed. They now count as a 8gc Common Spear that requires Two Hands to use. (So, it's 2gc cheaper, but cannot be used with a shield). Any model in a Non-Sartosa warband that may use a Spear may use a boat hook (the opposite is NOT true: pirate models who can use boot hooks may not use spears unless the equipment list specifically says so!)

~Skirmish & Wyrdstone Hunt Variation: While not a variation per se, after you've played them a few times, these are the perfect scenarios to test out the 'Random Happenings' table. Shake things up a little!

~New Scenario Variations: The Pool. Slippery Jack Variation! (From Kurgan, I believe... let me know who else!)
The pool is extra large (2'), and models have to swim to the prizes or use boats. He has all of the rules and stats for a chaos Spawn (see Mordheim random happenings). It moves randomly, except that he will move towards the closest model/boat in the water (will not follow them on shore, but will go up to the edge.)

~Gunpowder Plot: Optional Variation: Sabotage. Choose a large scenery piece in the middle, such as a boat or tavern. All Gunpowder casks starts no higher than 4" off of ground level. Works best with alliances, such as two weak versus one strong, or two on two. The defender(s) starts in the in a 6" radius from the center piece. The attackers may keep the barrels as normal, or may attempt to destroy the center scenery. If 5 or more barrels are placed on the center scenery, 3" from it, or 6" BELOW it (consider using the sewers rules), then the attackers win. They receive an extra cargo for each cask exploded (which they may open), +2D6 gold per barrel, and all of the attackers receive an additional +1 Experience for each member.

~Scenario Variation: Merchant Square- Booty Calls! Any goods found, common or rare, have the same rules for carrying as Cargo (meaning one at a time, half move, etc.) If an opened crate contains 1D3 Spears, you may instead choose to collect 1D3 Boot Hooks. Likewise, instead of finding 1D3 Nets, you may find 1D3 Norlander Nets.


HIRED SWORDS & DISCOURAGED WARBANDS
Common HSs can be found using normal rules.

Rare HS can be found, but require a Hero to search them them, just like a DP. (I.E. must make a successful Initiative test, and that hero cannot search for rare items).

Forbidden HS cannot be hired.


COMMON:
~Sartosan HS, Daniel Logee's Swashbuckler, Myntokk's Slayer Pirate.
~Any HS involving thieves/robbers, merchants, slavers, or assassins.
~Most Humans of a non-magical nature, and generic origin OR of an Empire base.
~Given their sea-based nature, Dark Elves & High Elves count as 'common'. (Dark Elf Assassin, Shadow Warrior/Elf Ranger).
~Every HS in the Mordheim Rulebook, except Warlocks and Freelancers.
~'Khemri' & 'Relics' Hired Swords. When in doubt, Araby is not a far off locale, but right around the corner.
~Includes, but not limited to: Beggar, Imperial Tactitian, Black Orc Overseer, Dwarf Pathfinder, Human Scout, Witch Hunter, Old Prospector, Lantern Bearer, Grave Robber, Swordsmith

RARE:
~Any Prayer or Spellcaster (except for Witches*, which are 'Common'). Includes similar "alternative casters", like Journeyman Runesmith.
~Generally: any Human HS that would travel around, but originates from a specific locale farther off than the Empire. Will also include Non-humans with a special niche (ex. Dwarf Treasure Hunter), Humans with a non-Sartosan niche (Beast Hunter), or reeally far off characters with a niche perfect for Sartosa (ex. Cathay Pyromaniac )
~Includes, but not limited to: Kislev Ranger, Cursed Hillman, Wood Elf Hunter, Chaos Emissary, Hobgoblin Scout, Big Game Hunter

*Why are witches common? 'cause it's hard to watch a Pirate movie without a witch or voodoo shaman in there, that's why! Sartosa's probably crawling with 'em!

FORBIDDEN:
~Any Mounted HS (if they come sans mount, they're Common). Estalian Corsairs are an exception to this rule, and may hire a Highwayman OR a Freelancer mounted (they count as 'rare' to find.) Note: no Pirate warband may hire a Road Warden, mounted or unmounted, as they count as outlaws.
~Any HS specific to a single, far off location, with little habit of traveling (ex. Fallen Sister, Ninja*, Dark Emissary & Truthsayer.)
~Very powerful hired swords, with nothing to do with the setting: Chaos Centaur, Dragon Ogre, & Bone Goliath.

{*Cathayan Pirates find Ninja hired swords as if they were 'Rare'.}


DISCOURAGED WARBANDS
Lizardmen*, Amazonian, Tomb Guardians, Revenant, BTB Cathayan Battle Monks, Merchant Caravan, Sorcerous Society, Protectorate of Sigmar, Wood Elves*, Outlaws of Stirwood, Imperial Outriders.

((*Lizardmen are forbidden for balance reasons, as the Aquatic rules favor them heavily as they are currently written (If they 'aquatic' rules were, perhaps, weakened, they might be permitted in. The Southlands are not too far from the Tilean Sea, meaning their presence wouldn't be totally inappropriate.))

Other warbands are discouraged for flavor/fluff reasons, as they don't fit the aesthetic. If a warband was given a background that would justify their being in Sartosa in a flowery way, it may be permitted with group approval.

Ex. Normally, Sisters of Sigmar wouldn't be appropriate in a Sartosa setting. However, if a pirate slaver raids a nunnery, and the poor, previously-pacifistic young virgins rebel against their captors, it would explain why a group of devout young women would be sailing along the Sartosan coastline, armed with relics stolen from their native monastery. The campaign consists of them desperately making their way home... or, perhaps, their adventures as they hunt down the remaining slaver ships, eager to free their remaining sisters from bondage.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 26 Feb 2009 - 2:19

I had a good look through the Sartosa stuff yesterday and shall be having another look today. Basically, I'm not in a position to offer creditable, playtested advice but would be quite tempted to try the handguns on equipment lists with crossbows idea. I would also maybe consider allowing any model to buy pistols if they don't have access normally. Maybe enforce the optional blackpowder rules for misfires on these weapons?

Just a few ideas some friends and I had when brainstorming a Sartosa campaign.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 26 Feb 2009 - 6:35

Pistols: Hmm. Someone mentioned that too. The question becomes who SHOULDN'T be able to use Pistols? Maybe grant them to any hero (except for Elves) with at least 1 non-thrown missile on it's Equipment list.

As far as the Blackpowder rules, I copied Cianty's lead, and have a normal pricing for Blackpowder, and a Reduced 'Misfire' pricing for blackpowder. For years, our group played with the Misfire chart, and still charged 35gc for a handgun, instead of dropping them to 28gc. To be honest, there are many cases when crossbows are far better than handguns... but if nearly every has instant access to them, and there's a good chance of finding them when opening Cargo crates, it's a lot more likely that handguns would see a lot more exposure.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 26 Feb 2009 - 6:45

I just realised my comments on the misfire thing weren't very clear. I meant that any warband buying pistols who didn't normally have access to them would always apply the misfire chart rules. Kind of like the swivel gun always using the misfire rules.

It was a quickly applied idea for a penalty to anybody using items that are not normally accessable.

I do agree that these weapons should be applied to warbands with normal, unthrown missile weapons available to at least one of the member types. Stops Marauders from having guns but the comparitively civilised Norse Explorers could if they wished. Means all those converted Orc pirates festooned with pistols become feasible too.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 26 Feb 2009 - 7:19

We have been playing a weekly sartosan themed campaign here since september - This week we are going to start trying out some of your scenarios and rules - ill let you know how it goes. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 26 Feb 2009 - 20:58

Sartosa, great campaign setting! Looks to breathe new life into Mordheim.

Ghost Pitates:
Screaming Ghosts: same as "Cabin Boys" & " Ghost Mates" ?
Ghost Captain & Screaming Ghosts: they can run, right ?
Where are the rules for: Lock Pick, Caltrops, Powder Monkey, Victals ?
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 26 Feb 2009 - 21:57

Catferret: Well, the norse heroes wouldn't be able to, as they can only use throwing axes. They have a henchmen group that can use Bows, so if they were upgraded, than THEY could use pistols. Other warbands that'd get pistols include (just a cursory look): Possessed, Sisters, Undead, Skaven, Orcs....

hmm. looks like a few unfluffy bands would also them, like Khemri, Forest Goblins, Dark Elves. Might be easier to list those that can, using the 'any hero with a non-thrown' as a jumping off point.

Tkkultist: Hope you enjoy! Personally, I'm a fine of 'Press Gang', but I'm a bit biased... and I like hitting drunks on the head. tongue King of the Hull is also a pretty good one (basically 'Wizard's Mansion' on a boat.)

Playtable: First off, thanks! Great praise indeed!

Screaming Ghosts: Yup, they're the same (damn my eyes).

And yes, they can run. I have a Ghost with sprint right now, and the next skill he gets is going to be the Pirate Skill, 'Quick as a Monkey', which means he can run and charge up ladders too (mwah ha ha.)

Lock Pick, Caltrops: Lock picks are in Empire in Flames, while the Caltrops are in town crier, I think. I know the Mordheimer has a Master Equipment list with both of them on there.

Victuals: From BTB. I've... kinda phased them out of the campaign, and failed to remove them from the inventory list. They reduce the selling size of your warband by one category, one use only.

Powder Monkey: A REAL mistake in my part. The Powder Monkey was the OOOLD Refined Powder, before I made it cheaper, easier to find, and not blow up when your gun went boom (although, the mental image of a charred monkey is almost worth it.) Use the Refined Powder price and rules as printed above (10gc, rare 5, can't work with Superior Gunpowder).
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KorgakGrimtooth
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 27 Feb 2009 - 1:16

First off, I'd like to say great job, StyrofoamKing! I love reading new campaign settings to see what kinds of ideas are out there (heh, I avoided the temptation to say "kinds of ideas are floating around out there").

Anyway, I have only one question: do you have any plans for an orc pirate warband? Perhaps they should be black orcs; I suppose a naval crew (I use the term loosely for the orcs) requires a modicum of discipline, which is closer to the black orcs than normal orcs. I mean, I could just use the Nemesis Crown black orcs, but one with more pirate-y stuff would be great!
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 27 Feb 2009 - 4:06

Master and I thought about it, and ultimately decided against making a brand new list for it, as there wouldn't be too many radical changes to the existing list. To me, adding 'pistols' and handguns to the Orc equipment list, and letting Goblins use Boathooks, and pretty soon it feels relatively 'piratey' already. If that's not enough, the Boss and the Big'Uns can learn pirate skills (including Novice Pressganger, which lets you pick up Goblin Swabbies), and there's the 'Orc Captain & Goblin Swabbie" hired sword pair, for just another taste of it. Or, if that doesn't work, use the Tim Hickelbury Pirate list to write your own (go ahead! Wink ) Hope that helps!
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 27 Feb 2009 - 5:36

As an Orc & Goblin Pirate player I fully support StyrofoamKing's choices here. I just use the standard O&G warband rules and with the right modelling and attitude they feel piratey enough, even for me. With the additions SK mentions above they would just get better!

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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 27 Feb 2009 - 9:35

Kickass. Time to go think about orcs with pirate hats... and maybe a parrot or three.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 27 Feb 2009 - 10:41

Orcy pirates. Look here for the efforts and results of Da Warpath lad's Warhammer Orc and Goblin Pirate lists. If nothing else there is a great deal of inspiration to be had.

http://www.da-warpath.com/pirates.pdf

And here for 7th edition discussions--

http://z3.invisionfree.com/Orc__Goblin_Warpath/index.php?showtopic=23643

I have run an Orc warband that drew its inspiration from looted Empire warehouses and armories using Foundry's Kev Adams Orcs. Using the Shooting skills your orc heroes can gain access to gunpowder weapons without modifying any rules.

Fancy Meetin' YOU 'ere!--My group is pretty literal. So we played the scenario as though our riotous heroes were carrying cargo (assigned to the hero after randomly determining how many shards the warband had). These heroes needless to say played no part in the scenario because of their encumbered state and heightened value. In the context of the scenario it made no sense, but it did play more 'realistically' otherwise than Chance Encounter usually does. (I shot that hero over there and now I have a wyrdstone shard!)
Cheers,
js
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 27 Feb 2009 - 15:02

Fancy Meeting YOU 'ere: We happened to roll it this week. My friend played a brand-new skaven warband versus my 140 rating Ghost Pirates. Only one of their henchmenturned up 'Drunk', but it turned out to save the day. The lowly, temporarily fearless henchmen (armed with a single dagger), took out a Screaming Ghost, and intercepted 2 separate charges before finally being overpowered. Not surprising that he rolled TLGT, granting the imbiding henchmen hero status.

We played the scenario as written which, admittingly, is a little unrealistic. An alternative might be to use them as 'Valuables', which are treated the same as Wyrdstone counters (they can be traded for Cargo, but only one can be opened at the end of the game). Or make them 'small boxes', which don't inhibit movement, but each hero can only carry one at a time. (Hmm... I might have to make that a third option...)
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 28 Feb 2009 - 10:07

To tell the truth I like the idea of the Fancy Mettin YOU 'ere as a stand alone scenario without the extra treasure. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense for even pirates to take treasure into a bar. Whatever.

My vote would be for the shards to count as valuables otherwise.

I could have used drunken guys when I fought the Ghosts...
js
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 28 Feb 2009 - 23:06

The way I see it, there're two crews having just raided an innocent merchant each, stolen any valuables, drunken an spirits aboard, and are on their way back home, or to the local brothel (to spend their loot.) The warbands intersect, and some of them are not quite sober.

Well, if you have a fear causing warband in your group, consider buying some grog. Costs 10+1D6, and only affects 1D6 models, but makes them immune to fear and all alone, and can be given to henchmen groups. Of course, they're at -1WS & -1bs , but if it's for a weak henchmen screen, steadfast may be more important than deadly.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Tue 3 Mar 2009 - 20:59

Has anyone playing Sartosa come up with modeled Gibbets?
Here is my try.
http://i218.photobucket.com/albums/cc193/playtable/Mordheim/Ghost%20Pirates/TheGibbet1.jpg

Here's the whole album.
http://s218.photobucket.com/albums/cc193/playtable/Mordheim/Ghost%20Pirates/?action=view&current=CaptainBlackwater.jpg
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Tue 3 Mar 2009 - 21:29

StyrofoamKing Said:
Quote :

Ex. Normal...Sisters of Sigmar...
...previously-pacifistic young virgins rebel...
..group of devout young women...
...them desperately...eager to...
...their remaining sisters...
...bondage.


So if one was to, hypothetically. Be twisted and derranged enough to want a warband of virgin bondage nuns where was one to find the rules for that something like that. What a Face

EDIT:Made the Wrong emoticon: Twisted Evil
EDIT2: Just not my day on those emoticons: drunken
EDIT3: ... Evil or Very Mad thats the one...

The Crazy part would'nt be to want such a warband but to have searched frantically through the rules set for days to find it...
Suspect
..right?
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Tue 3 Mar 2009 - 22:14

Gibbet: Wow, that's fantastic work. I especially love the Bloated, they look like so much fun to play with. I'll have to show you the one's I've made (both the full warband and the Gibbets.) *need... camera...*

I've made two gibbets I'm proud of: The first is made with zombie and skeleton parts for the body. For the cage, I glued strips of plasti-card, cut into tiny ribbons, and glued them in an interlocking wrap, tight around his body. Threw in a few chains from the Flaggelant sprue. Amazingly good effect, but a HUGE pain to build.

Gibbet number two has an OOOLD 4th Edition High Elf body (minus the right arm and head, which I switched with skeleton parts.) For the 'gibbet' itself, I just wrapped a jeweler's chain around him, gluing it every half-rotation. It looks less pirate and more 'jacob marley', but the effect is still creepy, and still looks like an imprisoned corpse, who has managed to wiggle one hand free.


Nuns: Wow. Not the first time that my words bore a lot more innuendo than I intended. Well, while I haven't played them, if you want warbands with S&M and bondage, try the 'Coven of Slaanesh" or the 'Witch Elf" warband (the latter of which was discussed in a recent topic, including possible 'balances').
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Tue 3 Mar 2009 - 22:58

nah, mate it's called lack of sleep and total lack of mental imaging filtration device.
a certain line from Primus antipop comes to mind Razz
To late for witch elfs and such, already added them to the fluff lead to the Esoteric's
^__^
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 7 Mar 2009 - 6:55

Playtable's Gibbets are great looking on the table too. Pity they can't hit worth a damn! pirat (And die easy!)

Question of the week--Swabbies. This hasn't happened yet but what's up with the getting your own henchman back thing. On a 1-3 the warband that took the model OOA gets it as a swabbie. On a 4+ the winner of the scenario gets the swabbie. So in a 2 player game if I win I have a chance of getting my casualties back.

Oh and then the argument was made that if I got him back he is just back as though he had survived the battle. Makes sense but what if the swab deserted?

I can see the rule for multiplayer games but it makes me cringe. Why not just have the model go to the warband that causes the casualty?

I only lose models as swabbies when I win. Need to play the Press Gang scenario.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 7 Mar 2009 - 7:19

Swabbies: Thse rules, actually, are only for multiplayer. Also, they don't apply to yourself. For example, if you roll 'winning warband picks up the swabbie' and you win, the swabbie goes to the opponent that remained on the board longest. So sorry, can't pick up your own casualities (although, with the right skill you can loot their bodies!)

As far as 'the warband that causes the casuality', I'm tempted to make it this way. The original Tim Huckelbery rules had them going to the winner, so I wanted to keep them RELATIVELY the same. If you want to change it for your group, see what works. My group has a few 'non-sartosa' warbands, so in my head, it goes to the longest lastest warband that takes swabbies.

We've also had an eerily low number of deaths. In the 5 or so games I've been involved in, there's been, like 1 henchmen death (that wasn't my own). Kinda weird.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 7 Mar 2009 - 7:39

That's better. Now where does it say that the rules are for multi-player? (The Swabbie rules are a bit tangled.)

Does it say you can't recover your own model in the rules? I was sure it did, but I also wanted to get on with collecting my prize fees from the Bretonnians... And I couldn't find any reference last night.

If it doesn't actually spell out the fact that you can not recover your own model we can print out this thread for now.

As long as the original author is credited I see no need to perpetuate their errors.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 7 Mar 2009 - 8:09

I see that Swabies are very rare indeed.
only in multi-player games
OOA henchman...dies on 1-2
(heroes even more rare)
available to be a kidnapped on 4+
then test to see if he is crew or swabie
and then less than 50% chance to be the warband to get him

As to the Kidnapped and Cursed Pirates...
If they join the "crew" would this crew be "The Cursed" or "The Gibbets".
I see now that "The Bloated" (Swabies) are very rare.

And speaking of "crew", since there are no standard skeletons in the Ghost Pirates warband (why?), if I'm on a ship and use crew to man the cannons, who gets the job?

Why is it that my opponent couldn't seem to fail a fear test last game??? OK, not a rules question, sorry.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 7 Mar 2009 - 9:35

I exchange a bunch of e-mails with Playtable and I realize that in the above posts we have agreed that the Swabbie rules only apply in multi-player games. Wow, that wasn't my understanding, but it is what we wrote. (I warned you we were a literal bunch.)

Then I re-read the Swabbie rules. It would clear things up considerably if the heading Multi-player games was inserted before the paragraph that includes "roll 1D6 to see who took him."

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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Today at 13:03

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