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StyrofoamKing
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 17:08

Flags: That is my fault, and one more thing for me to clarify. However, as they count as miscellaneous equipment, they fall under the normal 'cannot be used by a hero unless stated otherwise' (ex. grog, great coat, etc).

Also, the use of one hand means he cannot use any two-handed hth weapons during the game, nor gain any additional hand attacks (a player in our group tried to pass that a banner bearer 'couldn't use a crossbow, which takes two hands'.... I think I'm going to ignore THAT one.)
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 11 Jul 2009 - 19:55

StyrofoamKing wrote:
Flags: That is my fault, and one more thing for me to clarify. However, as they count as miscellaneous equipment, they fall under the normal 'cannot be used by a hero unless stated otherwise' (ex. grog, great coat, etc).
)

I think you mean cannot be used by a henchman, and you are right, however it is difficult for a new player to absorb all the different nuances of the game plus house rules and experimental rules, especially if they make assumptions instead of asking questions.

Add our playing circumstances and my own legendary openness to outside questions when I am trying to execute my grand strategy (or just roll to hit) and questions don't get asked or perhaps don't get answered... ah well.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 12 Jul 2009 - 21:34

I can understand, every rookie makes mistakes. The first two games I played with my brother, we missed the equipment restrictions (and had a Merc champ with a blunderbuss), the 'all henchmen must be armed identical rule', and they fact that henchmen learn exp differently than heroes (meaning, you had a starting warband of, effectively, 7 heroes... incorrect as everything, but I will say it added personality. Might have to make a modified version of that some year).
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 31 Jul 2009 - 22:24

And now--"Here be Monsters"
We rolled the scenario for the first time last night. We had a pretty good time with it. As usual when I actually play a scenario it becomes different from just reading it.

I love the fact that the Monster is lurking underwater in his cove. I have never liked the Monster Hunt scenario from Chaos in the Streets because the warbands never fight the monster they just shoot it and it watches them while they shoot.

There are several areas that I did not understand:
-the description of the Monster's cove. It is at least 6" x 6" with "steep sides like a ruin or a rocky nest". Are there entrances? Is it difficult ground?

-the option to steal treasure from the cove. The warrior rolls on the monster activation table a number of times. Does the warrior suffer the worst result possible? Does the player get to choose? The player must roll 3 times, he rolls a 1, a 3 and a 5. Now what? (In my world #1, the monster gulps down the sacrifice. But "no" says my opponent, "I pick #5 Bubbles!")

-the Monster activation table.
Result #4. Slow rise. When is the free attack made? How could a missile attack be made? Is it made out of turn sequence like an Overwatch? Can the warrior use Quick Shot?

-an activated Monster.
What does it do? Can it rise directly into hand to hand? (How we played it.) Or must it rise. Then charge in its next turn?

-the Monster may not leave its cove.
Arrgh! Back to the same old, same old Monster Hunt. Sacrifice one henchman (or not even that if the monster can't charge the turn it "rises") and then back off and shoot the Monster that just sits there because it won't come and get you no matter how long you take to kill it. Oh well.

When I first read the scenario I envisioned an environment of mostly water that the warbands needed boats, rafts or narrow bridges to explore. The Monster then attacks from below like the shark in Jaws...

We ran into the young Cavern Mouth Behemoth. The Dark Elves killed it in 2 rounds with 2 Fellblades. My warband would have shot it, since I don't have the close combat heroes available. (The Khorne Raiders could have done it in one round with one hero...9 attacks WS 6.)

In Seahammer the Cavern Mouth Behemoth can lure victims with its Glowing Orb. As one of the weaker monsters in the scenario that would be a better use. The minus one to hit means my quick shot, trick shooters still hit on a 2...
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 1 Aug 2009 - 17:19

Von Kurst wrote:
I love the fact that the Monster is lurking underwater in his cove. I have never liked the Monster Hunt scenario from Chaos in the Streets because the warbands never fight the monster they just shoot it and it watches them while they shoot.

There are several areas that I did not understand:
-the description of the Monster's cove. It is at least 6" x 6" with "steep sides like a ruin or a rocky nest". Are there entrances? Is it difficult ground?

Don't worry, my group saw it differently too. With 'Monster's Lair', we've always had the house rule that the lair is in a building of sorts. You can't see the monster until someone steps it, and you can't shoot into the building from the outside... you have to step into it.

With the cove monster, I envisioned a similar 'building'-like area. A small circle of stones or ruins that can be scrambled on top of and shot from, but close enough that a breath attack can hit them quite easily. If the only stones/ruin you have are impossible to climb, steps or a slope should be provided. I think I'll clarify more, to make the situation fit the model in my head...

PLACING THE MONSTER AND RUINS
In the center of the board should be square of water, exactly the size of the monster's base. Around the entire square is about 2" of normal ground, which is surrounded by ledges about 1-4" in height, made out of rock, walls, or ruins. Climbing up or down the sides of the ledges counts as difficult terrain (unless the ledge is a shear rise over 1" high, at which case, it counts as climbing.) Once on top of the ledge, models move as normal. Any model who is on the bottom ground level, adjacent to the patch of water, is considered in base contact with the monster whenever the monster finally arrives,. Models standing on the upper ledge may shoot at the monster, as they are considered not in base contact with the monster (they may still be hit with breath & tentacle lashes as normal). If engaged in hand to hand combat with someone on the ground, the monster will not leave the ground level, and will direct his hand to hand attacks to other models on the ground level. At the start of the monster's turn, if f there are no models at ground level, the monster will charge a random model on the ledge, and may attack it regardless of the ledge height without suffering any penalty to hit. Any model that comes into contact with the monster in this way is also considered charged (meaning he can charge several models at once.)

The monster is very large, and it is not uncommon for warbands to support their fighters with missile fire. You may shoot into a combat that involves the monster and your own men, but roll 1D6 for each hit: on a 1-2 you have hit a random warrior in base contact with the monster, on a 3+ you have hit the monster. Models that are not on top of the ledge or not on the ground may not fire at the monster or at any model in the cove... it is considered 'out of sight.' When in doubt, follow this rule: if a model may shoot at the monster, he may be charged by it, and be reached by the monster's massive limbs.

Optional: If your group desires, the area of ground surrounding the monster is actually shallow water, and counts as Difficult Terrain. All movement across it is halved, and all hand-to-hand attacks made on it suffer -1 to hit (Aquatic models and the Monster are exempt from this penalty). It is not very deep, so models armed with blackpowder may fire as normal (unless they are knocked down or stunned when they are in contact with the water.) The 'Water' penalty is recommended for groups that have an average rating of 300 or higher.


Von Kurst wrote:

-the option to steal treasure from the cove. The warrior rolls on the monster activation table a number of times. Does the warrior suffer the worst result possible? Does the player get to choose? The player must roll 3 times, he rolls a 1, a 3 and a 5. Now what? (In my world #1, the monster gulps down the sacrifice. But "no" says my opponent, "I pick #5 Bubbles!")

Ah. Well, the next line says 'Always roll at least one dice, no matter what, and choose the lowest result rolled." A bit disjunct, I suppose, but at least I included it this time (unlike some of my OTHER scenarios, where I forgot to put little clauses like that in at ALL.)

Von Kurst wrote:

-the Monster activation table.
Result #4. Slow rise. When is the free attack made? How could a missile attack be made? Is it made out of turn sequence like an Overwatch? Can the warrior use Quick Shot?

-an activated Monster.
What does it do? Can it rise directly into hand to hand? (How we played it.) Or must it rise. Then charge in its next turn?

As the monster rises during your Combat phase, the shooting/combat attack occurs out of sequence, still during your turn, though it may be made by a model that moved and/or already shot this turn. A shooting model may not use the quickshot or knife thrower skill, but is only allowed a single missile attack. The monster is considered to be touching the warrior that disturbed the water and all others on ground level (see above), so the shot must be randomized as stated above (3+ hits the monster).

If player makes the free hand-to-hand against the monster, the warrior must be at the Ground level (not on the upper ledge). He makes his single free attack against the monster during your turn, and is considered to be in base contact with the monster; the monster will not attack back until his turn. The monster, once it is placed on the board, is considered to be in combat with the model that disturbed the water and all models on the ground level that are touching his base. During his first turn, he does not move from his placed spot, but for the purpose of fear tests and order of initiative, he has 'charged' this turn.

Von Kurst wrote:

-the Monster may not leave its cove.
Arrgh! Back to the same old, same old Monster Hunt. Sacrifice one henchman (or not even that if the monster can't charge the turn it "rises") and then back off and shoot the Monster that just sits there because it won't come and get you no matter how long you take to kill it. Oh well.

I hope the 'ledge/cove' rules above amend that situation. If you think it won't or is unclear, let me know. It is still a shooter's advantage, but they are no longer allowed to move past the range of the monster's reach.

Von Kurst wrote:

When I first read the scenario I envisioned an environment of mostly water that the warbands needed boats, rafts or narrow bridges to explore. The Monster then attacks from below like the shark in Jaws...

Well, if your group uses full rules for destroying boats, go to. Not my area of expertise, as we kept the boat rules pretty light. I recommend a small patch of 'deep water' place in the middle of the board, which is the surest spot for the monster to show up. When he surfaces, roll 1D6: on a 4+ he shows up next to the disruptive warrior, in base contact with the boat. On a 1-3, he's 1D6" off in a random direction (meaning he can come straight up under a boat, and deals an 1D3 auto-attacks to the unlucky craft!)

When we finally played it, we had a giant 2' diameter lagoon in the middle of the board, made entirely water, except for a small lighthouse (6" base). The cove consisted of a reef of rocks forming the ridge, grouped in a 6" diameter circle. Warbands had to boat/swim way out there, but had to disembark and clammer over the rocks to physically reach the monster. Worked pretty well, actually.

Von Kurst wrote:

We ran into the young Cavern Mouth Behemoth. The Dark Elves killed it in 2 rounds with 2 Fellblades. My warband would have shot it, since I don't have the close combat heroes available. (The Khorne Raiders could have done it in one round with one hero...9 attacks WS 6.)

In Seahammer the Cavern Mouth Behemoth can lure victims with its Glowing Orb. As one of the weaker monsters in the scenario that would be a better use. The minus one to hit means my quick shot, trick shooters still hit on a 2...

Well, the first thing that reminds me is that I'm going to add a 'tougher monster' list.
If your average warband is 300+, you add +1 to all stats, and +1 S to all tail/lash/breath attacks, and +1 to all saving throws/regeneration. If the average rating is 450+, add +2 to all stats, +2 to all tail/lash/breath attacks, and +1 to all saving throws/regeneration values. In both cases, I recommend the 'Difficult Ground' / -1 to hit rule, which will hopefully make the odds a little more stacked on the monster.

Glowing orb: That sounds neat. If the -1 is too little, I can make it worse (maybe -3, combined with the 'large monster' to make it net -2), but if it's a lure, that could be fun too. How did it work? Here's a few ideas.
~ Lure (opt1) - Must make a leadership test to shoot at the monster.
~ Lure (opt2) - Random model not in combat must pass a Ld test, or move 1D6" forward. (This may cause the model to move off the ledge, fall, and/or into base contact with the Behemoth.)
~ Lure (opt3) - same as 2, but affects all models not in combat.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 1 Aug 2009 - 20:09

Hey Dave,
Thanks for the answers. I like the idea of a tougher monster and its a simple mechanic as well, bonus.
Sorry about missing the answer to my question about monster reaction. We missed a few things. (The player who set up the table didn't read the scenario first, for example... But it was no big since he had left room in the center of the table for a lair.)

The rules for the Cavern Mouth Behemoth were published in WD #290. The orb lures any (swimming?) model within 6 inches of the monster that fails a lead test. The model must move toward the monster. In Warhammer the model is removed as a casualty when it moves into base to base with the monster. So its like option #2.

I'm hoping we roll the scenario again.
js
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 1 Aug 2009 - 21:23

An alternate version of doing the cave (which I've decided not to do), was to treat the entire board like the cave itself. Much like the 'Cave of the Worm', all movement would be difficult terrain, and all sight would be restricted by darkness. In that version, the center pool takes up the middle of the board, but there were lesser water ponds in the cove (which had smaller giant crabs, and giant frogs, and various other nasty things popping out randomly.) I like the current version better, but another thought, if you like.

If you don't roll it again, it makes a great campaign-ender. I need to make a list of fun 'closer' scenarios.
~Monster's Lair
~ Wrecking, with a DP at the helm (and slightly buffed up henchmen). I think the 'Ghost Ship', with Jeremiah Bane was my favorite... (now that I think about it, that's how we ended our first campaign... we used your Ghost Ship scen., added Bane on the deck, and randomly rolled 'Heavy Rain'. Fantastic fun.)
~ Warring Houses, with a DP per warband instead of HSs.
~ 'City on Fire' - Use the TC8 'Let the Damned Burn' rules, sell torches & arson items, and set buildings and people on fire. For added Sartosa flavor, a 'powder horn' does the same as a Gourd of Oil, a gunpowder weapon can ignite a building on 6+ (but only at base contact), and any model on fire can jump into the water to be automatically extinguished (so make sure you have lots of rivers and canals running through town... a 'Wilhelm scream' is required for every flaming warrior jumping into the drink) For even more mayhem, use the Gunpowder Plot scen, and/or with a target building for each warband!

In any case, the final scenario only has the warbands first take routs at 50% casualty (or, you can waive it completely, if you like!)
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 1 Aug 2009 - 22:39

Well I put the scenario in the Caves of the Damned so we were playing with the pesky RotC Darkness rules and my version of Dangerous Ground as well.

http://boringmordheimforum.forumieren.com/battle-reports-and-fluff-f11/to-be-a-pirate-king-the-vmc-returns-to-sartosa-t2058-50.htm#35230

http://www.flickr.com/photos/playtable/

The Dark Elf player wanted to set up the scenery because he never gets to, and since he didn't know he was setting up a scenario with water in it he grabbed a sheet of paper to represent the cove. It was all good.
@Last Battle--We did Wrecking and Warring Houses last campaign, so maybe we will come back to "Here be Monsters". Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 20 Aug 2009 - 23:35

In regards to the Ghost Pirates...

On the Skeleton Mates equipment list there is listed
"Helmet...10gc"
Why?
Helmets only help if you are stunned and Skeleton Mates can't be stunned.
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PostSubject: More love for the Ghosts   Sat 22 Aug 2009 - 7:06

The Bloated--have a BS of 3. Aside from the odd Goblin Swabbie hired sword this is the highest Ballistic Skill of the Swabs. A standard Zombie from WFB or the Undead warband has a BS of 0. A zombie swabbie (for the Undead warband} is listed as BS 2 as well. The only missile weapon available to the Bloated is the Cursed Pistol which always hits on an unmodifiable roll of a 6.

Ethereal--if the model passes a Ld test they may move through "any terrain piece", etc. What if they don't pass the first test? When do they need to test? When they encounter terrain that can not be moved through normally? At the start of the turn?

Playtable is rolling at the beginning of the movement phase. If he fails, he moves normally in a different direction. This was fine until he announced that he was unsure about how the rule worked and asked the group how we thought the rule was supposed to work.

Skeleton Mates, Screaming Ghosts and Ghost Captains--what are their maximum characteristics?
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 22 Aug 2009 - 10:53

I have been playing some Sartosa battles with my group. It has been working out great. Thanks for the work you put into it.

We just had a few adds to the game:

- Stringed missile weapons worked until they got wet for the first time. We do this to promote more black powder use, figuring that the strings and fletching get damaged by the water. Maybe could be a -1 to BS and/or S instead. We haven't played that many games yet to decide. We also took the advice to add guns to the lists that had bows/crossbows.

-I ruined the first ship I made by spraying it with the wrong paint (it is foam and partially melted). Well it actually looked pretty cool. We added dread ship to the boats you could purchase. +25% cost to have a ship that has -1M but needed no helmsman. Available only to evil warbands (undead, chaos, ghost pirates). I like it so far, what do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 22 Aug 2009 - 16:14

Playtable: No real reason, now that you mention it. Nostalgia, I suppose? I'll remove it, next time I update. Not a game breaker, thankfully.

Bloated: Same as the Helmet, really. Not a big priority. I'd leave it at 3 for the time, and maybe change it later.

Ethereal: Ah. Well, here's the rules our group developed. Your group may disagree, but playing the Ghosts myself, it seemed fair to my opponents and myself:

~~~~

ETHEREAL FAQ
When a Ghost wants to move through an object and/or over water, he must declare it first, and then measure to see if he has the distance to reach across/through said obstacle. Once the Ethereal model reaches the water surface/object, he makes a Leadership test; if passed, he may pass through the object/over the water without problem if he has enough Leadership, and continue his move as he sees fit. If he fails the Leadership test, he is frozen where he is, touching the obstacle/water’s edge. (This may mean that the Ghost may run up to a wall and stop there, staring at it, looking and feeling quite silly.) If failed, the rest of the model’s move is wasted. If he did not attempt to run or charge, he may shoot a missile weapon in the shooting phase. A Ghost may attempt charge an enemy model through a solid object, assuming he can sense the enemy’s presence.

If passed, the model may spend his movement traveling through terrain and friendly warriors, as well as walk on any lake, river, or similar. If he is unable to end his move in unoccupied space, he is immediately taken out of action. With water, it’s slightly more lenient; if the Ghost ends his turn while walking or running on water, he remains on water for the rest of the round. However, during your Recovery phase, the Ghost must pass another Leadership test (making him Ethereal again, and thus able to continue walking on water), or is taken out of action as he sinks to the very bottom. The first solid object or body of water that the Ghost attempts to phase through/over must be DECLARED before measuring it’s length… you may attempt to run through a castle wall, and only afterwards find out that it’s 2” thicker than you anticipated, making you remove your model!

Once a model passes a Leadership test to be Ethereal, he remains Ethereal for the remainder of his move. He may move through any number of friendly models, objects, and over several bodies of water, so long as he ends his move in an unoccupied space. (Example: A Screaming Ghost attempts to run across a small gap of water and through the wall of a building. The ghost runs to the water and passes his Leadership Test. He moves over the water, and may continue his move any way you wish, moving through any terrain or over any water he has enough movement to cover. These additional objects/surfaces he’s moving through/over do not require you to declare them first, and may be measured before deciding upon your direction.)

While moving through matter or over water, your ghost counts as moving over Normal ground, with no movement penalties. He cannot ‘climb’ per se; but if the level of the ground on the farther side of a phased object is higher than the nearer side, he may be allowed to bridge the distance. If the height difference of ground is not less than 1”, the height difference is deducted from the Ghost’s movement rating.

(Example: A Ghost is attempting to move from outside of a building, through the wall, and into the lobby. He passes the leadership test, but the wooden floor of the building is higher than the ground outside. After moving through it, the height difference is measured: the floor is 3/4 inches off of the ground, making it less than an inch. It took the ghost 2” of his Movement to reach the building, .5” to get through the wall, so he has 5.5” left of his run. If the floor had been over an 1” height, it would have taken away 1” of his movement, so he’d only have 4.5” inches of free move left.)

Alternatively, an Ethereal may choose NOT to walk on top of water, but instead wade through it. Once he enters the water as a corporeal being, he will continue to be treated as a corporeal being until he exits the water; his movement is restricted the same as non-ethereal waters. Likewise, if a Ghost involuntarily comes in contact with water (falling, a failed leap, etc), he may choose to hit the water as a solid object (normal rules apply), or attempt to turn Ethereal just above the water’s edge. If you choose the later, roll a Leadership test for the Ghost: if passed, he will not suffer damage for the fall (see Soft Landing), but will instead float above it. If the Leadership test is failed, the Ghost will disperse into ectoplasmic particles, and is taken out of action.

Lastly, Ethereal models may pick up large objects as normal (crates, ladders, governors’ daughters), but may not make Ethereal moves while carrying them; they still receive Etheral ward saves as normal, regardless of what they are carrying. Ethereal models carrying powder weapons (other than Cursed Pistol) still get wet in weather conditions if the climate is wet (Raining, Heavy Rain, etc.) or if he chooses to wade through water as a solid being.

~~~~

Max Stats: All models in the Undead Warband have the same max stats as Humans.

~~~~

Long John: You had me confused with 'stringed missiles', but I see what you mean now. That's definitely an idea. Regardless of the many 'blackpowder friendly' incentives in the Sartosa campaign, I will confess that in many cases that the crossbow is still a better weapon. Of course, the two times that I faced a crossbow heavy warband (witch hunters & tileans [using reikland rules]), they both happened to roll 'Windy', with a 4+ on the second dice roll (meaning -1 to shoot, a -2 for arrows and bolts.) So, weather results can be a fun equalizer. I like your suggestion, though, so I'll mark it with the 'House Rules' area.

Another tiny thing to note is that in our group, we start the Strength/Armor Modifier at S5, rather than S4, so the Crossbow has no effect against armor. Not a big boost, but it means that models in Toughened Leathers have a small protection against crossbows, and none against pistols and handguns.


Ghost Ship: Again, sounds like a fun 'house rule', to be added to the 'Dwarf/Chaos Dwarf' boat rules. Do you mean a BIG boat, of the Sloop/River Barge level, or a row boat? Generally, Helmsmen are not such a hindrance that -1 M doesn't seem a fair trade... especially 'cause all of the crafts (in my version) move a sluggish 6" only. ( I hate really complicated rules, hence the lack of 'wind rolls' and 'speeding up-slowing down' charts.)
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 22 Aug 2009 - 18:55

@StyrofoamKing--Thanks for the responses. I like the Ethereal FAQ. I think you are in kind of a catch-22 with complicated rules but I understand your point. How the game is played will usually sort that out.
Boats--Not having to worry about with or against the current has been nice. But we'll not surrender the weather gauge ye lubber!

@Long_John_Silver--welcome aboard mate! Any photos of the Dread Ship?
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 22 Aug 2009 - 20:10

Styrofoamking,
Thanks a lot for your FAQ on ethereals. It helps a lot.

Another question though,
Daramatis Personae, Jeremiah Bane, The Devil King
I'll admit he's pretty good but 120gc to hire and he only stays for 1 game?
Seems a bit overly harsh to me.
Is there a reason?
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 22 Aug 2009 - 20:56

Von: Well, I know it's a lot of rules, but since your group seems to have a lot of questions about my 'seat of my pants' rules, I thought it might be better to over-explain for once rather than under. (Plus a fellow group member asked me while I was playing my ghosts 'how can he pick up a crate if he's a ghost?', prompting a hell of a scowl from me.)

Jeremiah: Well, the chief reason he's high is that there is NO set scale on DP cost. Warband members is pretty easy, HS are slightly harder, and DPs are downright crazy. Very litle official point of comparison. My only justification, I suppose, is that he is not much weaker than Aenur, who costs 150gc.

To my surprise, I think one of Bane's strongest abilities is the 'cannot board his boat without a fear check'. The idea of 40% of your warband unable to join you in the charge is pretty rough, even more so if they have to pass a climbing test. Again, out of all of the DPs, he makes the best NPC villain.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 22 Aug 2009 - 21:09

Quote :
out of all of the DPs, he makes the best NPC villain.

I can't argue that, he's a great NPC villain.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 22 Aug 2009 - 23:30

@ Von Kurst -- Once I get my camera back I will post some photos. I also have an extra special project that I am just priming tonight. Hopefully in a few days I will have them up.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 23 Aug 2009 - 5:47

@Long_John_Silver--sounds good!

@StyrofoamKing--Mr. Bane is a great villain!
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sun 23 Aug 2009 - 21:53

I know I've been talking it up quite a bit, but I've finally had time to work on the Sartosa Errata. I'm making great progress, so expect it sometime this or next week.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Fri 4 Sep 2009 - 20:10

Hey StyrofoamKing,
I wanted to do a semi-formal thank you from myself and the lads in Indianapolis. We have played 28 weeks of the Sartosa setting and have had a blast doing so. Thanks so much for all your work, the responses to our endless rules queries and extras like the monkey and the character Redbeard. We had great fun and I recommend the setting to anyone with a bit o' arrr in them!

Von Kurst and the VMC
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Sat 5 Sep 2009 - 19:06

Thanks much, to all of you, for agreeing to be my Mid-West Guinea Pigs. For the sake of the credits, any chance you could send me a roll call of players? (Also, what does 'VMC' stand for?) Glad you liked!
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Tue 10 Nov 2009 - 7:59

This setting is absolutely fantastic!

Me and friend have playtested some warbands and we have only one note which wasn't said in this thread:
Exp for Mates from araby is too high for what we get. I suppose You have take them from WH, who have the same problem. We think it could be solve by taking price to 35 and give them 4WS the same as normal human champion or maybe rise price to 30, Exp to 4 and 4I, so it will be more fluff, as they don't have access to strength skills.

Otherwise great job!
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Wed 11 Nov 2009 - 21:05

Well, the OLD version of the warband had almost exactly as you said. The Mates had the following rules:

~ WS4
~Cost 35
~Exp 8
~ Access to Combat, Strength, & Speed (plus pirate & special)

Given that the Merchant is basically a secular 'Augur' with some special skills, I used the Sisters as a Basis for the heroes, as well as the Araby Raiders (their champions also have access to Str & Speed, rather than shooting.)

However, upon playing them, I discovered that they dominated in the first game or two when in came to HtH (thanks to 4 WS4 heroes), but after a short number of games, you quickly found yourself at a loss.

Sartosa is a heavily 'gun-based' setting, and without ultra-speedy units (beastmen, norse), a warband without shooting skills quickly finds itself at a big loss. Thus, I shifted them from the Sisters/Raiders model to the Witch Hunter model - they're not champions, but you get 3 cheap heroes with access to shooting. Paying an extra 10gc for WS4 is a waste for a sniper.

Also, giving them Strength, Shooting, & Speed would be too much of a powerhouse.

Although, it retrospect, I should probably have raised the price to 30, and lower the exp to a few lower. 6? I like the warrior stats, however, even if it means they're cheated out of the WH's 'Burn the Witch' skill.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 12 Nov 2009 - 0:46

I can say that 4EXP is more accurate for normal warrior stats on hero, Bergjeagers in Averland, who have hight BS and traps, are 4EXP.
Eventualy I propose 4I and 6EXP.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Thu 12 Nov 2009 - 5:24

Well, Averlanders are semi-official, and witch hunters are official. Also, think of it logically: they have one less advance than the normal champions. The sensible experience level would be one experience tier down (6, instead of 8.)

I'll pass on the I4, as the 'Pirates of the Cathayan Sea' warband has a lot of I4. They're full of martial artists and ninjas, so it suits them better than Smugglers.
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PostSubject: Re: Sartosa   Today at 17:11

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